Ubuntu introduces new theme and branding • Hacker News Board

Re: Ubuntu introduces new theme and branding

#111

Post by rbanffy » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 5:33 PM UTC

carbon8 wrote: post #75

rbanffy wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OSX's biggest downside is having a fixed region of the screen that changes according to the context of the selected window on the desktop. That makes it impossible to check what two windows can do or even what program is responsible for them until they are selected. That's terribly inelegant solution that separates the data (what's inside the window) from the menus that act on that data (the menu). Admit it. That's a…

"what program is responsible for them" This is handled by title bars in Gnome, OS X and Windows, not window menu bars. "separates the data (what's inside the window) from the menus that act on that data" The menus don't just act on what's in the window. At least some menu items act on the application itself. In a multiple document interface with a system that ties menus to windows, the menu of one window acts on mult…

> which is why most applications in these windowing systems can't run without at least one window open.

As opposed to "application buildup" MacOS users experience since the OS7 days, when they are on a clean desktop and five applications running for no particular reason.

Re: Ubuntu introduces new theme and branding

#112

Post by randallsquared » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 5:47 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #109

randallsquared wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It used to be really easy to junk a Debian system by installing random apps to try them and then uninstalling them. Even with more modern Debian-based systems like Ubuntu, installing and then uninstalling something (say, kubuntu-desktop, to pick an example that happened to me recently) does not leave your system in the same state it was before you started. Instead, you get (to a GUI user) bizarre random configuration…

> It used to be really easy to junk a Debian system by installing random apps to try them Oh.. The 90's... Seriously: I moved to Debian-based distros in 2002 and never experienced anything like what you describe. And mind you I ran testing with packages from sid directly for a couple years.

Before switching to Ubuntu late last year, the last time I'd used Debian on the desktop was around 2000, so it's true that my experiences with Debian are mostly 90s-era. However, it's still the case with Ubuntu that it's common to install something, try it, and then be unable to get things back to the way they were before (mostly speaking of desktops, WMs, and themes, here). It's not uncommon to allow Update Manager to update things and then find that programs that were working fine suddenly don't work. This happened to me just in the last month with Wine, and happened a while before that with PulseAudio.

I have the patience and time to spend a day changing my config until things work again, but it's certainly a ways behind both Mac and Windows in this area. Additionally (while I'm venting), Ubuntu trains you out of reporting bugs because if you actually reported a bug whenever things went wrong, it would be a part-time job. I actually had fewer update problems with Gentoo ca 2003, though at the time I had things to get done and just wanted stuff to work, whereas now that that I don't depend on my home system to make money, I find fixing the problems fun. :)

Re: Ubuntu introduces new theme and branding

#113

Post by genieyclo » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 6:05 PM UTC

revorad wrote: post #11

Dobbs wrote: post #5

I just installed Xubuntu on a new laptop. I was blown away at how beautiful it looks in comparison with Ubuntu. I'm very glad to see Ubuntu get over it's fetish for its old ugly color scheme.

Xubuntu is beautiful and fast . I like it much better than Ubuntu.

Xubuntu is actually pretty bloated in slow, in some tests even worse than the standard Ubuntu install. (see http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7520/1.html> ).

Lubuntu, which is the "official" Ubuntu sub-distro for light fast iso for small-spec computers runs on LXDE instead of XFCE and is purportedly much better on resources and faster. I think the real reason why Xubuntu is so bad is because all the other junk from Ubuntu Gnome got packaged in with Xfce and got called Xubuntu.

Re: Ubuntu introduces new theme and branding

#114

Post by ktf » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 6:58 PM UTC

tjic wrote: post #101

> After six years it was time to refresh the face of Ubuntu starting with the word mark Yeah, that's a core principal of branding - as soon as the customers are familiar with your logo, change it. Someone tell Apple, IBM, and Coca-Cola.

The Apple logo has changed at least 2 or 3 times.

And the Ubuntu change isn't drastic enough that people will stop recognizing it.

Re: Ubuntu introduces new theme and branding

#115

Post by ericd » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 8:40 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #108

ericd wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember DLL's on Windows? Having one new app upgrade a shared DLL was the source of so much pain in other apps. In a perfect world where interfaces are rock hard and apps code to them perfectly rather than how they actually work, shared libraries are a fine idea. In the real world of desktop software, though, independently tested, self contained packages are a much more robust solution. OS X's application installati…

Of course I do. That's one problem package management solves. You (software piblisher) don't update libraries you don't own - just your application. Shared functionality, like how to read PNG images is managed by the system. This also forces library makers not to break interfaces, solving the other problem you mentioned. If you need a specific version of a given shared component, you state that dependency in your pac…

Oops, I just meant if you remembered the havok they wrought, not whether you actually remembered them or not. Didn't mean that to sound the way it did.

I think the problem comes when software devs code to the actual behavior of a library's interface rather than to the stated behavior (which may not even be completely documented). I think this happens pretty frequently, and always if the library's behavior deviates in a way that breaks the program.

In the context of Mac OS, I would prefer not to rely on the library makers, etc. to do the right thing in not changing interfaces, especially in the event that an earlier version didn't quite meet its spec. I'm OK with the earlier version not meeting spec, as long as the software maker accounted for that (which he did, if his software based on it is solid).

Also, I think consistency of behavior is more important in unix-style single-purpose apps than with monolithic Mac OS style apps, due to the former's higher likelihood in being used as part of a script or larger program. I agree that package management is a good thing on Linux, and shared libraries probably are, but I'm not convinced that's true on Mac OS.

Re: Ubuntu introduces new theme and branding

#116

Post by rbanffy » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 9:07 PM UTC

rsheridan6 wrote: post #48

rbanffy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OEM license is paid in full by the adware/crapware that comes installed over it. One more reason to uninstall Windows (besides Windows)

I don't see why they can't install crapware on Linux, cut out MS, and cut prices for customers while keeping a bigger cut for themselves.

They could, but that could, perhaps, increase the OEM license prices for that manufacturer.

Microsoft doesn't take being cut out lightly.

Re: Ubuntu introduces new theme and branding

#117

Post by patrickk » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 9:09 PM UTC

I'd like to see Ubuntu taking a really radical approach and giving the user a choice of more non-traditional desktop options such as these custom desktops, courtesy of lifehacker:

http://lifehacker.com/5043712/roll-your-own-lightning-at-sun...

http://lifehacker.com/5087956/customize-your-own-killer-enig...

UI looks set to change radically over the next few years, it would be cool if they looked at the multitouch route:

http://gizmodo.com/5457472/how-the-apple-tablet-interface-co...

It can't exactly hurt Ubuntu's market share to really look at exploring the possibilities (sorry couldn't resist). Apple (naturally) and even Microsoft are really upping their game on the UI front and there's the danger of Ubuntu being left even further behind.

Re: Ubuntu introduces new theme and branding

#118

Post by windsurfer » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 11:16 PM UTC

randallsquared wrote: post #107

windsurfer wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xulrunner takes 40 megs on a good day...

So, pretty trivial, except on mobile, you agree?

Not if you have Miro, Songbird, Firefox and Celtx all running, which isn't unheard of.

Also, that's not including the gigantic libraries that Songbird and Miro might share (as they are both media apps) but also the smaller ones.