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Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#341

Post by jasonpeacock »

nlh wrote: post #301
stonecraftwolf wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh God, yes, lawyer. And yes, fire him. In regards to OPs confusion about the innocent employees trepidation -- there is a reasonable fear of reprisals here. From you, from others on the team, and from the sexual harasser. Reprisals are often not easily identified -- they can be subtle and social in nature. What often happens is that the person who reports harassment is then punished because people no longer want to…

> What often happens is that the person who reports harassment is then punished because people no longer want to talk to her. They keep her out of the loop on casual stuff, but lots of professional discussions happen in casual contexts. Over time, she gets iced out for reporting illegal behavior. I think this really depends on your team dynamic, and I wouldn't necessarily be concerned about this point (as valid as it…

Alas, you don't know what will happen until it does happen.

It could be as simple as "Wow, Joe reported Bob for sexual harassment, but Bob didn't do anything wrong - I was there. Now I have to be extra-careful around Joe to avoid getting reported myself!"

And there you go - Joe is now suffering from "retaliation" and being treated special for speaking up.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#342

Post by rwmj »

Mz wrote: post #336
rwmj wrote: post #333

I've had a similar experience at a start up I once worked at. We hired our first network administrator to replace developers like me who had been doing the same sort of job. The day that he started the job, we received an email that someone using our gateway IP address had posted to Usenet [this was a while back] the IP and root password of some other company's public webserver, with a message to the effect that peop…

Well, that's a nice story, but I don't see how an attempt at intentional malicious sabotage of their previous employer is "similar" to this.

It's not a "story", but a real thing that happened to me. It's similar because the OP needs to fire the employee now, and document everything. And maybe get a lawyer too.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#343

Post by l33tbro »

Mz wrote: post #174

So, I am female. When working at a Fortune 500 company, I once emailed a colleague and copied our two bosses. I advised him to never speak that way to me again. It went to HR. I got interviewed. I assume he got interviewed. He was not fired. He never spoke that way to me again. I eventually reestablished trust with this man and we got on well. I suspect he got sensitivity training. I was not told what went down. It w…

I really get what you're saying. But don't you think the fact his guy is already acting like a cowboy a little while into his job raises some red flags? Sure, if he'd been there a while and was carrying on like this then some sensitivity training might be the best option. But this BDM is acting like a loose cannon somewhere that he has just been employed. Seems like a bad hire all-round, regardless of the SH stuff.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#344

Post by hermannj314 »

jeremyt wrote: post #268
hermannj314 wrote: post #109

Please get someone from HR involved. Do not immediately fire the employee as this could lead to severe financial problems for you. Despite the peasant with pitchforks in this comment section, wrongful termination / paying unemployment / litigation, etc. is also something you may want to avoid. This employee of yours may not be aware of the policy or the law and is possibly entitled to progressive disciplinary action…

Who are all these people who think a small startup has a HR department?

Really? I'm pretty sure my advice has merit even if you don't have any HR professionals on full-time staff, just like 'lawyer up' has merit if you don't have a lawyer on staff. It really isn't hard to piece together.

If you have no HR staff or lawyer on staff and have a question requiring their expertise, you can hire consultants or lawyers to assist you with your problem.

If you are a really small start up and can't afford to do any of this, then you should read the law yourself and make your own conclusions.

If you don't have time to make your own conclusions you should just do whatever you want.

How many contingencies do I need to assume here? I'm giving advice on the Internet.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#345

Post by maxcan »

tptacek wrote: post #329
maxcan wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a shame to see how aggressively this is being down-voted. All you're saying is to take a step back and try to improve the behavior before firing the guy. Face to face dialogue, communication, etc etc is much more likely to prevent this in the future. Just firing him is kicking the can down the road to the next company.

So, instead, you pick up the can, and have a stern talk with the guy, have him sign some paperwork, and move on. Later, the guy makes untoward comments to someone on a PIP. You don't find out he did this until after you terminate the PIP person, and they sue you. Right in the middle of your next fundraising effort.

I personally believe that short of committing a felony, every employee gets a warning first. I'm not going to be held hostage by the abstract threat of frivolous lawsuits. And yes, with everything including the PIP being documented, that would be a frivolous lawsuit.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#346

Post by h1srf »

dragonwriter wrote: post #156
ChemicalWarfare wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. However once the conversation goes private it's just that - a private non work related conversation. Unless there's anything illegal there like physical threats etc it's a private matter between the parties directly involved.

From every sexual.harassment training I've had given by lawyers working in the field, the idea that a change of venue/forum necessarily removes something like this from work-related is absolutely not the case.

Yup same here. Every sexual harassment training course I've attended has said that just because it is not happening on company time or on company property does not make it not harassment.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#347

Post by gkya »

DanGarcia595 wrote: post #334
gkya wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't know if the mentioned person's mother tongue is English. They may well not know that MILF is mother I like to f*ck. I'm from a non English speaking country and I can say that I haven't met anybody who'd know that. I myself didn't know that until I read a Wikipedia article. The OP should first try to see if this is the case, otherwise fire them. Some are bad at flirting, and sometimes you say silly things. We…

If that is the case, would you, not knowing the meaning of a word, use that word in a professional environment? And also, does not understanding the meaning of the word excuse it's use?

I said he may have mistaken the meaning of the word. They don't have footnotes on porn sites deciphering milf, bdsm, cfnm etc. Sometimes we say silly things in foreign languages. And also in our mother tongues. It's not like we check every word we use in the dictionary.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#348

Post by yuhong »

mmcclure wrote: post #240

Ok everything about this situation aside, it feels like a bold move to post about this publicly on HN, particularly when you're concerned about trust issues. I honestly can't believe I don't see any other comments along these lines. You run a startup. A lot of people read HN in general, but I have to assume startup employees are _even more_ likely to read HN. As such, it doesn't feel crazy that one or both of these e…

I have been thinking about Yishan-style CEOs for a while now, though sexual harassment is probably a special case here. BTW, I hasn't done much research on sexual harassment laws, but so far I don't think they are as bad as anti-discrimination laws. This is partly because sexual harassment often do leave evidence behind. This don't mean they are worth the costs though.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#349

Post by snowwrestler »

ChemicalWarfare wrote: post #309
snowwrestler wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coworkers speak privately to one another all the time about all sorts of things. Even in private conversations, they can reasonably expect professional and appropriate behavior from their colleagues. When does someone become "more" than a coworker? There's no clear line there, but it's definitely not during the very first private conversation.

Don't think there's a question here whether his comments were appropriate or not. They were not. Ppl also get harassed on the street with all kinds of inappropriate comments. The question here is whether this constitutes a workplace sexual harassment or not. It's probably going to be a judgement call on behalf of the employer, however they have to be careful not to get a wrongful termination lawsuit to deal with down…

It's a workplace issue because the two people were brought together by their employer and the conversation was initiated in a work context.

You're right that people get harassed by strangers in all sorts of public places, but that's not what happened here.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#350

Post by slantyyz »

mc32 wrote: post #272
harryh wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add on a bit more you are probably right about "b) terminate the offending employee for cause" but before you do that you almost certainly have to give the employee a chance to respond to the accusations. If you just fire him before doing that you are likely opening yourself up to a lawsuit for wrongful termination. Yet again, this is something that a lawyer will help you handle correctly.

Why can't this person simply get fired. No cause. Even if you want to give them the benefit of doubt (which seems extremely unmerited, given the presented evidence) why would you want to employ someone who shows such poor judgement? This is not a college dorm room. This is a professional setting, and while it is natural for romances to take place, this is in very poor taste to say the least, and even if it had been i…

I'm wondering this too, mainly because the OP said "just hired".

Most employment agreements have a probationary period (e.g., 3 months) where the employer can terminate the new hire without cause.

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