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Aristotle, “On Trolling”

journals.cambridge.org

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Re: Aristotle, “On Trolling”

#61

Post by a3n »

sspiff wrote: post #27
hguant wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment relies on a misunderstanding of what Aristotle - or his proxie here - means by the term "art". In modern usage, something that has no art to it is base, simple, and requires no effort to achieve. However, art meant something more nuanced to Aristotle (that nuance is why people still make a living arguing over the implications of what he said). For Aristotle, an art was something that pointed to the Good.…

Regardless of what definition of "art" you follow, I feel like trolling as described by labster can certainly be used for good. Labster himself describes the use of trolling in tricking the reluctant apprentice into learning, or using it to sow strife to further policy making and bring about social change. "Good" is in the eye of the beholder, but I could certainly consider some of those things to be good some of the…

> Regardless of what definition of "art" you follow, I feel like trolling as described by labster can certainly be used for good.

Or at least for effect.

Re: Aristotle, “On Trolling”

#62

Post by yummyfajitas »

etherael wrote: post #59
yummyfajitas wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One need not even tell a truth to troll - one can merely ask a question that has no good answer. These are my best trolls: "what are the underlying principles that lead you to believe X?" "what evidence - if any - would cause you to hold a different belief?" It's the best troll, because when folks come up with no answer they usually resort to ad-hominem attacks. That's usually how you know you've raised a very good p…

Why would you call that a troll, rather than simple rational enquiry?

Mainly because it invites downvotes, ad hominem attacks and general hostility from other parties. For example, this thread from yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11654161

I don't think that rational inquiry and trolling are necessarily disjoint sets.

Re: Aristotle, “On Trolling”

#68

Post by feedjoelpie »

hguant wrote: post #19
labster wrote: post #14

for there is no art in what they do. I couldn't disagree more. There is common trolling and there is sublime trolling. The ability to sow the perfect amount of strife to create real change is a thing of beauty. This goes beyond the tactics of information warfare -- for which trolling has its uses -- and reveals truth to those in ignorance. For most true knowledge cannot be learned by the advice of elders alone, but m…

Your comment relies on a misunderstanding of what Aristotle - or his proxie here - means by the term "art". In modern usage, something that has no art to it is base, simple, and requires no effort to achieve. However, art meant something more nuanced to Aristotle (that nuance is why people still make a living arguing over the implications of what he said). For Aristotle, an art was something that pointed to the Good.…

Would you consider, as I would, the Yes Men's activities as both trolling and more or less good? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiWlvBro9eI

Re: Aristotle, “On Trolling”

#69

Post by flurpitude »

labster wrote: post #14

for there is no art in what they do. I couldn't disagree more. There is common trolling and there is sublime trolling. The ability to sow the perfect amount of strife to create real change is a thing of beauty. This goes beyond the tactics of information warfare -- for which trolling has its uses -- and reveals truth to those in ignorance. For most true knowledge cannot be learned by the advice of elders alone, but m…

See also Ken M:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us4Eti0UmDI

Re: Aristotle, “On Trolling”

#70

Post by mark_chosenberg »

tremon wrote: post #44
mark_chosenberg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mentioned as not being a troll for "telling the truth"... Right, because "truth" is a completely not subjective concept. Aka: "it's only trolling when I disagree with the opinions being expressed"

it belongs not to the serious person to be a troll but to the one who lacks education

Among the maxims on Lord Naoshige's wall there was this one: "Matters of great concern should be treated lightly." Master lttei commented, "Matters of small concern should be treated seriously."
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