Earlier quoted context omitted.
>My reaction would be to just fire both. What did the existing employee do to deserve such treatment?
I'd guess it's because she didn't handle it on her own, and instead relied on the manager. It's not your job to handle shit like that. If the person continues and it makes the work environment hostile than it might be, but not a one-time interaction like OP describes
Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?
71–80 of 622 posts
Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?
#72Door. ASS. Way Out. Consult a Lawyer if you feel like it.
This kind of thing doesn't get better.
Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?
#73Do not talk to them, do not go into work, take sick days if you have to, don't respond to emails, phone calls, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING until you have talked it all out with your lawyer, and then do exactly what he instructs you to do.
Don't let this destroy your dream, friend! Especially over someone else's bad choices. Be safe, lawyer up, get this taken care of and move on with the work.
Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
>My reaction would be to just fire both. What did the existing employee do to deserve such treatment?
Maybe the OP hasn't shared all information but if asking someone out and/or complimenting someone's appearance (albeit crudely) is now the equivalent of sexual harassment then be prepared for a rapid decline in population since no one will want to be the first one to make a move.
There you have it. I'd bet dollar to doughnuts that if this person had simply "expressed interest," I don't think there would have been an issue. But if a total stranger says they only want to "hang out" as friends, and your reaction is to call them a MILF and try to share some creepy "secret" with them, that's clearly an unwanted interaction.
Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?
#75Any ideas why your employee brought it up to you (management) but does not want you (management) to do anything about it?
"I don't want to be seen as a problem, and I don't want this to be a case of management portraying it as 'that guy we love got fired because X can't take a joke'".
Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?
#76Not a lawyer. When the female employee says she doesn't want to cause trouble, it just means that, if you are going to do something about this situation, then you better own it. Make this a problem between you and the employee who acted inappropriately. i.e. if/when he demonstrates understandable reasons for acting the way he did, you don't turn this around on her.
Respectfully, that's not the employee's decision to make.
Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?
#77Lawyer lawyer lawyer LAWYER lawyer LAWYER . I think the consensus in the grown-up business world is "fire immediately for cause." I would bet substantial money that when you lawyer lawyer lawyer they will advise you to do that and document the heck out of it. The calculus is really, really simple: if you don't, then you will with probability approaching one get this incident or a similar incident cited during a threa…
Not in my experience, and it's not the law (as taught in the myriad of training courses I've endured over the years). The man should have an opportunity to learn from this mistake, then be fired when he proves incapable of learning.
Providing the warning and training is enough to legally cover the company's ass if the guy screws up again.
Yes, it's a big mistake to make, but when your hiring pool is predominately college graduates, it's pretty likely they don't know the law (or how to navigate romance in the workplace) either. Time to educate them.
EDIT: It's also important to get the other side of the story; why did this guy feel it was appropriate to approach the woman in the first place? Were there conversations not included in the record? Was there body language the man misinterpreted?
Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?
#78Lawyer lawyer lawyer LAWYER lawyer LAWYER . I think the consensus in the grown-up business world is "fire immediately for cause." I would bet substantial money that when you lawyer lawyer lawyer they will advise you to do that and document the heck out of it. The calculus is really, really simple: if you don't, then you will with probability approaching one get this incident or a similar incident cited during a threa…
Reprisals are often not easily identified -- they can be subtle and social in nature. What often happens is that the person who reports harassment is then punished because people no longer want to talk to her. They keep her out of the loop on casual stuff, but lots of professional discussions happen in casual contexts. Over time, she gets iced out for reporting illegal behavior.
And then there is the fact that this person who has already shown a marked disrespect for women and a willingness to cross appropriate boundaries will know exactly why he has been fired. If you've ever been on the receiving end of a sustained campaign of abuse and harassment, that is not something to take lightly.
You should do everything you can to make sure she doesn't suffer for having reported illegal behavior, and you should reassure her that you'll have her back in whatever way you can. That might mean working out with her and HR what the best way to move forward is, keeping in mind that she has every reason to think she's going to get screwed over in this process, because that's what happens the vast majority of the time.
I'd say it's actually a huge vote of confidence in you that she brought this to you immediately.
Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?
#79Lawyer lawyer lawyer LAWYER lawyer LAWYER . I think the consensus in the grown-up business world is "fire immediately for cause." I would bet substantial money that when you lawyer lawyer lawyer they will advise you to do that and document the heck out of it. The calculus is really, really simple: if you don't, then you will with probability approaching one get this incident or a similar incident cited during a threa…
Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find all these laws around sexual harassment strange and confusing too. Where I live, it's not sexual harassment unless you grabbed somebody's ass or demand sex/sexual favors using your authority. Saves a lot of nerves for everybody. I don't see anything bad one adult person asking other adult person out and showing sexual interest in non-violent, non-demanding way and accepting "no" for an answer (as far as story…
Would you find it appropriate if a coworker at work came up to you and said they would like to fuck you (which is quite literally what MILF means)