This is why (college) old media is failing • Hacker News Board

Re: This is why (college) old media is failing

#61

Post by stjarnljuset » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 2:01 AM UTC

QNguyen wrote: post #59

stjarnljuset wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha, I actually went out to grab a paper because I recalled seeing this too. Those ads were for Student Media which I guess Daily Bruin is a part of. It advertised "pay competitive with any on campus." As for other other jobs on campus, I saw that the Volunteer Center was hiring "Wordpress programmers" for $19/hr a couple months ago.

Now I wish I had paid more attention in PIC 40A this quarter... By the way, UCLA HNers need to do a meet up

I've only identified about 4 UCLA HNers, one of which tried to do an LA meetup without much success http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=804191

Re: This is why (college) old media is failing

#62

Post by sliverstorm » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 2:59 AM UTC

raquo wrote: post #35

iandbrown wrote: post #13

The collegian's web site runs on a windows server. lol'in at LAMP.

Well, theoretically, maybe they would like to switch platforms if the "intern" could do it?

Just means they don't know enough about the acronym to say 'WAMP' instead.

Theoretically, it could mean they want to switch. Theoretically.

Re: This is why (college) old media is failing

#63

Post by sliverstorm » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 3:11 AM UTC

bfirsh wrote: post #21

At my student paper in the UK we are all unpaid volunteers. Is it any different in the States?

1) Did they have to qualify, and was there a hiring process other than 'we have a spot and I've read some of your work and like it'?

2) How many hours were they expected to work? The only way to rope someone into, say ,20 hours or more a week without pay is under the flag 'intern' . It is worth noting in many other fields you ask for 40 hours/week unpaid in a remote city (and you don't cover living costs) you'll have people climbing over each other to get the position. I've never seen this with engineering types though. Perhaps this is because interns in other fields are like apprentices, looking over the boss's shoulder and playing gopher, while in engineering jobs an internship seems to be the same as a regular job, except paid less.

(can't say for sure that they actually want that many hours though)

Also notice they are not really offering a learning experience. They are asking for someone who has finished with the learning part to just come on in and do this task already.

Re: This is why (college) old media is failing

#64

Post by scott_s » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 3:21 AM UTC

ZachPruckowski wrote: post #51

scott_s wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you and others are looking at it from a normal business transactions perspective. College papers aren't a business. I would be surprised if their advertisement revenue even covered operation costs. Students work on college papers for the same reason they attend class: to learn. Also, I think you're using "senior" in a different manner than I. I'm using it to mean seniority, or length of time spent working on…

As a learning experience, this sounds fairly sub-par. Having just finished college, I'll say that the thing that made extra-curriculars a great learning experience was the ability to work with people who knew as much as or more than you. As a reporter at that paper, you'd get a lot of low-risk practice writing articles, and get advice and critiques from people with a few year's experience. By contrast, this job for t…

It's better than nothing. In a bad economy, it's hard to get professional experience before graduation. Doing this probably wouldn't be as good as a paid internship at a company, but it's better than having nothing on the resume.

Re: This is why (college) old media is failing

#65

Post by Locke1689 » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 5:47 AM UTC

afterburner wrote: post #56

adelevie wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that tech people can go anywhere with their skills. They're not limited to journalism. This means that newsrooms should make it a priority to at least be somewhat competitive when it comes to hiring technical talent.

Exactly. For the aspiring journalists, working at the college paper is a sweet way to get an edge in the journalism world, something very few other jobs at that level can provide. For the web developer, this is merely one of thousands of opportunities, and holds no special lure for being the school paper. Clearly, the journalists/editors here are looking at it from their limited point of view. Given that, the tone of…

I like to think of an internship as a kind of apprenticeship. In some cases, the apprenticeship is worth it. For example, a tech internship at Google or Microsoft lets you work on some of the most widely used software in the world with some extremely competent people. In this instance perhaps being unpaid wouldn't really be a big deal -- the real value would be in the experience you get and the things you learn. Working for a college newspaper, however, is unlikely to provide a good CS student with anything more than they'd learn on their own with a rather useless name to drop at the end. While working for a college newspaper may be a high accomplishment in the journalism world, it doesn't really mean all that much in the tech world.

Also, Microsoft and Google pay. They pay a lot.

Re: This is why (college) old media is failing

#66

Post by brezina » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 7:11 AM UTC

adelevie wrote: post #20

DavisShaver wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know Xobni was made by a Penn State grad!

Penn State has given birth to several prominent startups: YNOT Advertising (LionMenus), Xobni, and Weebly (YC). If you want, you can add FanGamb (DreamIt) to the list :)

Actually, there is another recent startup success from Penn State. Aaron Gotwalt of CoTweet was a 2004 grad. CoTweet was just acquired this week.

Re: This is why (college) old media is failing

#67

Post by john_lewin » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 7:33 AM UTC

bfirsh wrote: post #21

At my student paper in the UK we are all unpaid volunteers. Is it any different in the States?

Its quite different to have an upaid internship for a reporter compared to a web programmer. A reporter is essentially useless until he/she has spent a fair amount of time learning the trade from the senior journalists. Building contacts, how to dig and research, gut feelings, etc ... all that comes from watching and experience. This is precisely what interships are for.

Re: This is why (college) old media is failing

#68

Post by com » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 8:44 AM UTC

ZachPruckowski wrote: post #51

scott_s wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you and others are looking at it from a normal business transactions perspective. College papers aren't a business. I would be surprised if their advertisement revenue even covered operation costs. Students work on college papers for the same reason they attend class: to learn. Also, I think you're using "senior" in a different manner than I. I'm using it to mean seniority, or length of time spent working on…

As a learning experience, this sounds fairly sub-par. Having just finished college, I'll say that the thing that made extra-curriculars a great learning experience was the ability to work with people who knew as much as or more than you. As a reporter at that paper, you'd get a lot of low-risk practice writing articles, and get advice and critiques from people with a few year's experience. By contrast, this job for t…

I was shocked years later when I worked with some MSM how amateur they were compared with the fairly "best practice" stuff we invented ourselves for our university paper.

Personally, the best learning environments I've ever been in were when I was at the sharp end of the problem, and had to work it out with other people from first principles. I'll never forget what I learned with sweat running down my forehead.

More traditional teaching like tutorials or apprenticeship-like things aren't so memorable for me, and the apprenticeship model (apart from the positive side of implicit learning of many intangible processes) tends to lead to repetition of ages-old worst practices by the learners in later life.

Re: This is why (college) old media is failing

#69

Post by awa » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 9:04 AM UTC

rohin wrote: post #15

Most college newspapers actually outsource the content management and hosting for their websites to a company called College Publisher (owned by Viacom). College Publisher takes 100% of the advertising revenue in exchange for hosting the site and providing a CMS for "free". It's a small but lucrative niche for Viacom. By not giving up 100% of its online advertising revenue, this paper is actually well ahead of its pe…

I doubt a college newspaper would rake in the moolah with online advertisement. I remember my college paper getting most of their paid ads from local restaurants and businesses

They don't look very smart by not taking Viacom on their offer and then asking for a volunteer web developer to work on the site.

Re: This is why (college) old media is failing

#70

Post by joelhaus » Thu, Mar 04, 2010, 11:12 AM UTC

Not enough vision here... its a potentially great way to get free press and ad space for your project while learning a bit about all the newspapers that will be desparate for any programmer with knowledge of a dying industry can be saved.