Since 99% of "conservative" news is manufactured by corporate America, then manipulated, packaged, (Often repackaged.) and presented by Faux News, I'm actually okay with this. It may be supporters of Drumph and company learn the hard way just how almost everything we enjoy as Americans is very much at jeopardy because of Corporate America pushing their agenda and only their agenda through their media outlets. In othe…
Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News
291–300 of 368 posts
Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a big problem that I've been seeing a lot lately: Liberals and Progressives thinking that they're absolutely right and just, and as such, they should censor those that they perceive as not being right or just. But who is the judge here? How do we really know what is absolutely right or just? Censorship of any kind is inherently dangerous and detrimental to true progress. Aren't equality, open-mindedness, and…
Literally no one has suggested that we silence opponents. I am not sure how you are confusing me and facebook's curation system not giving attention to certain sources and positions based on their credibility and integrity with actively preventing people from speaking. Whether your statement is based on disingenuous confusion or simple ignorance doesn't matter at this point because you've made your own post largely i…
Your personal attacks on me are actually proving my point. In your original post, you said:
"In the specific case of conservative politics, why does it matter that it's so skewed? I have absolutely no issue with, in this specific case, conservative politics not receiving much attention."
That's a form of censorship and manipulation, especially because Facebook is not seen as an editorialized news source, but rather as a representation of one's community. You seem to think it isn't censorship though:
"I am not sure how you are confusing me and facebook's curation system not giving attention to certain sources and positions based on their credibility and integrity with actively preventing people from speaking."
This had nothing to do with credibility or integrity. It was a group of people with a very specific political ideology that were subjectively picking news and having it appear in an organic feed, when it was really editorialized.
I'm not confusing you with Facebook's curation system. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm telling you why your opinion shouldn't be applied at scale (in this case, to a system that appears organic) and also why you should care about this not just for this one incident, but for the implications that this has on a larger scale.
So you don't care about conservative views getting silenced here. After all, conservatives are wrong, right? But what if the major media outlet changes it's mind and starts to think liberals are wrong, and thus silences liberal content? How will you feel then? This isn't about political ideologies. It's about the implications of an unprecedentedly large and trusted media outlet taking sides and deliberately influencing it's audience. Liberal or conservative, that's dangerous.
Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "flat earthers", blatant racists, and charlatans air time (excuse the hyperbole, hopefully the point was understood). The point was understood, but differently than you intended. These terms seem to be used to reference the folks that would claim to hold the conservative viewpoint, but the terms themselves only further evidence the misunderstood viewpoint non-conservatives may have of conservatives, and that misund…
To piggyback on this, one of the things Jonathan Haidt has shown in his work on ideological bias is that liberals are unable to accurately understand the conservative worldview, while both conservative and moderates are able to accurately explain liberal positions. Here's an explanation of the study: >One other point that I find really interesting and important about Haidt’s work is his findings on the ability of dif…
Actually (without getting into methodological issues and whether he has actually shown anything), the conclusion would be more accurately stated as that liberal are unable to accurately predict the manner in which conservatives would prefer to express their worldview, whereas the reverse is not true.
I think that, to the extent this is accurate at all (and this type of research on broadly characterizing liberals and conservatives, from either side, is fraught with opportunities -- often realized -- to take broad fuzzy terms and operationalize them in ways which reinforces researchers' own ideological biases), what it really reflects is the fact that liberals in-group language is the same as the common language of the broader society and, particularly, entertainment media (to which, then, moderates and conservatives are still heavily exposed), whereas conservatives in-group language is something to which liberals are far less exposed (mainly propagated through conservative churches and similar institutions).
(This is also feeds -- though its not the sole source of -- the liberal view of conservative dishonesty, in that the main context in which liberals encounter conservative in-group language is in conservative advocacy of public policy positions, where the language used to articulate conservative values is used in a way which clashes with liberals expected use of language, and seems dishonest when it comes to values.)
Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodet? (Who watches the watchers?) To have some kind of filtering or curation, you necessarily have to put some people into a position of power where they have the ability to censor this noise. On a forum where it's explicitly known that such "moderators" are present, and even better if their biases are known, this is perfectly fine. If I'm on a science-oriented discussion forum and it's adver…
>However, if a forum claims to be "open" and "inclusive" but then censors people, that's just hypocritical and wrong. I just dont think the trending stories ever made an emphatic claim to be open and inclusive, nor is promoting some stories artificially the equivalent to "censorship." Not allowing stories in the timeline is completely different than manually choosing the trending stories for a day. Facebook has alway…
As for porn, if the site clearly states that that's something they censor, that's fine. Lots of sites do that. But yes, the whole name "trending stories" absolutely does imply an "organic popular list". If you "know" that this isn't really what it is, that's great for your insight, but it's still lying on the part of Facebook.
Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many American liberals are just as hard-headed and difficult to debate with. The Overton Window has shifted in the past couple years and the original leftists are now centrists. America has become radically polarized and the radical liberals and just as dangerous and closed-minded as the radical conservatives. You should also bear in mind that you're commenting on an article where liberals deliberately censored conse…
Point being, Facebook's audience is majority international and it most of all wants to make money. If you occam's razor this, Facebook is simply presenting people with what they want to hear (a well-proven phenomenon[1]). The report has shown nothing to prove that there is some sort of committee that decides which political stances facebook is going to shove down people's throats, but we know it has MULTIPLE groups t…
Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
(Remember, the point was matching "empirical reality") > Benghazi was the result of a YouTube video! Meh. Who cares? That was an insignificant event compared to the climate and government policy. > We're not spying on your emails! This one uses the NSA's word game where they claim it's only a "search" when a human looks at it. While I suspect many regular politicians (including Obama) don't fully understand the subje…
> Meh. Who cares? That was an insignificant event compared to the climate and government policy. Mostly agree except for that poor video-creating dude who was thrown in jail for a year, plus or minus, as part of cover for a lie during campaign season. Right or left - you've gotta admit that kind of sucks.
We can find abuses of power and corruption everywhere in government if we take the time to look for it, but some problems are larger and need immediate attention. As Londo Mollari said (B5 #3.11).
Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir
to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war
on twelve fronts.
Once our climate problems, wealth gap, the growing police/surveillance state, and other large problems are stabilized there will be time for these more mundane problems in government.Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or it could be due to the fact that the current conservative movement relies on deception to push it's agenda, which makes it difficult for the average lay person to even understand what they stand for. Tax cuts marketed as economic stimulus, attacks on regulations and consumer/environmental protections marketed as 'making government more efficient', racial oppression disguised as drug/crime laws, universal health ca…
Its nice to see throwit992 point proven in such close proximity to the comment. Your spin doesn't reflect the beliefs of any conservative I have met. We aren't twirling mustaches here.
EDIT: To add a little more substance. I think the incoherence stems from the fact that the current conservative alliance is formed from approximately 3 distinct groups, with different priorities. You have the religious folks who care about abortion, same-sex marriage, drug laws, etc... And then you have the blue collar group that cares more about immigration, guns, etc.. And then you have the pro-business group which mostly cares about taxes and deregulation. From the outside looking in, it shouldn't be surprising that it's hard to empathize with the 'conservative' world view, because the external manifestations of that worldview are often very contradictory (i.e. why would a group that supports small-government also support the drug war, etc...)
Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
Funny that you should mention flat earthers - when Galileo published his works proposed a heliocentric system, he was tried for heresy. I'm sure at the time, the Church were confident they were right about the matter and therefore had no qualms in suppressing Galileo's claims. Freedom of information and opinion is what drives progress. Should conservative opinions be wrong, then there is no fear in giving them a plat…
That's simply not how discourse works on a national scale. There are many things that can be given a platform but aren't because it'd be a waste of time. No one is afraid to give these things a platform, it's just pointless. Artificial platforming for the sake of having every imaginable view point with or without merit on the table would be a disaster. No one is stopping people from having these opinions, speaking ab…
You may not have been paying attention, but unfortunately that's not the case.
https://www.thefire.org/list-of-campus-disinvitations-2000-2...
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/whats-new-about...
http://www.mediaite.com/online/university-president-shuts-do...
And I can link to many more examples if you wish. It's moved from "your opinion is incorrect but I respect your right to speak it" to "I don't agree with what you say so I'm denying your right to express it".
Now do you understand the problem? It's quite incredible, actually.
Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
>However, if a forum claims to be "open" and "inclusive" but then censors people, that's just hypocritical and wrong. I just dont think the trending stories ever made an emphatic claim to be open and inclusive, nor is promoting some stories artificially the equivalent to "censorship." Not allowing stories in the timeline is completely different than manually choosing the trending stories for a day. Facebook has alway…
Oh please. When I see "trending stories", that implies that the stories are popular, not that they've been manually selected or filtered by some unelected group with an obvious bias and agenda. As for porn, if the site clearly states that that's something they censor, that's fine. Lots of sites do that. But yes, the whole name "trending stories" absolutely does imply an "organic popular list". If you "know" that this…
especially on facebook. each person's trending stories could be different and be presented based on what it thinks is popular AND applicable to you. all i see is "here is a subsample of some of our most popular stories." do you and your friends have the same trending stories at the same time? cuz i get regional stories. im sure my friends in other regions dont get those stories. it is quite obviously targeting me based on something besides a global trending list.
nothing on facebook is ever organic. and ive never seen facebook claim anything was.
Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
Its nice to see throwit992 point proven in such close proximity to the comment. Your spin doesn't reflect the beliefs of any conservative I have met. We aren't twirling mustaches here.
Except for the fact that I would describe myself as a moderate. I can empathize with the desire and need for sensible tax cuts and smaller government, but I can't support a platform that is incoherent and hypocritical. EDIT: To add a little more substance. I think the incoherence stems from the fact that the current conservative alliance is formed from approximately 3 distinct groups, with different priorities. You h…
[edit after the edit - please don't edit after someone has already replied - it makes the replier look bad]
From the outside, Democrats can be viewed as a bunch of special interests under one tent. I find much of these "group slicing" to be problematic when talking about the GOP as I don't think its really those groups or the ultimate belief is what is reported. Viewing a group through another group's lens is fraught with peril.