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Today I accept that Rails is yesterday’s software

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Re: Today I accept that Rails is yesterday’s software

#31

Post by astrodust »

askyourmother wrote: post #12

I remember early Rails, around 0.13, pre RC, the community was small the future seemed bright. Little did we know the horrors of what it would turn into. Most of the professional people left when they saw the security circus, the endless holes and design flaws. I learnt then - avoid any web framework which has pragprog pushing a book behind it. The new one to avoid because the masses are already circling around it is…

That's a pretty shitty attitude to have.

What framework is sufficiently irrelevant that Pragmatic Press or O'Reilly can't be bothered to write a book about it?

Re: Today I accept that Rails is yesterday’s software

#32

Post by scj »

icpmacdo wrote: post #18

I am thinking about completely stopping reading Hacker News. I enjoy the community a lot but every time I am learning something new I read about how its old and shitty and will cause hair loss when you try and invest any time in it. It puts the breaks on actually learning with the distraction of going and trying to find that new ambiguous stack that the author is hinting at.

Wouldn't you rather be told upfront what a tool's flaws are before you invest years of effort into them? Even if you decide to embrace a tool despite flaws, isn't it best to recognize / minimize them?

For example, C is a great tool. But heaven help someone if they ignore its' sharp edges.

There is no silver bullet. So the best you can do is find something that suits you, and the task(s) you are trying to accomplish.

Re: Today I accept that Rails is yesterday’s software

#33

Post by tomc1985 »

Well, the situations with coffeescript exceptions and exceptions-from-the-depths-of-hell are avoidable (hint: don't use coffeescript)... indeed Rails makes it easy but just because crazy amounts of gems are on offer doesn't mean one has to use them.

Ruby/Rails certainly has its quirks, and while Rails certainly does seem to be taking on more and more unnecessary dependencies, some are still plenty productive in day-to-day Rails. A lot of pain avoidance in Rails is following its opinions up-and-until it takes you further than you need to go

Re: Today I accept that Rails is yesterday’s software

#34

Post by Jaepa »

icpmacdo wrote: post #18

I am thinking about completely stopping reading Hacker News. I enjoy the community a lot but every time I am learning something new I read about how its old and shitty and will cause hair loss when you try and invest any time in it. It puts the breaks on actually learning with the distraction of going and trying to find that new ambiguous stack that the author is hinting at.

Eh, there will be a large market for Rail & Ruby for a long time. One of the first things to come out of Rust & Golang was a Rails style framework.

And honestly when it comes to learning languages ideas are transferable, the only thing that changes is the wrapping around it. Learn what seems interesting and useful, and use the right tool for the right job.

Re: Today I accept that Rails is yesterday’s software

#35

Post by tomc1985 »

icpmacdo wrote: post #18

I am thinking about completely stopping reading Hacker News. I enjoy the community a lot but every time I am learning something new I read about how its old and shitty and will cause hair loss when you try and invest any time in it. It puts the breaks on actually learning with the distraction of going and trying to find that new ambiguous stack that the author is hinting at.

Perhaps you might consider completely stopping reading Medium posts. Much of what is wrong with HN is the fact that people here think Medium gives them instant credibility.

(To be more specific, I object with how professionally-done Medium posts look, in contrast with their content, which often seem amateurish at best.)

Re: Today I accept that Rails is yesterday’s software

#36

Post by elliotec »

scj wrote: post #32
icpmacdo wrote: post #18

I am thinking about completely stopping reading Hacker News. I enjoy the community a lot but every time I am learning something new I read about how its old and shitty and will cause hair loss when you try and invest any time in it. It puts the breaks on actually learning with the distraction of going and trying to find that new ambiguous stack that the author is hinting at.

Wouldn't you rather be told upfront what a tool's flaws are before you invest years of effort into them? Even if you decide to embrace a tool despite flaws, isn't it best to recognize / minimize them? For example, C is a great tool. But heaven help someone if they ignore its' sharp edges. There is no silver bullet. So the best you can do is find something that suits you, and the task(s) you are trying to accomplish.

I completely agree with you. But when it comes to developing web apps rapidly, Rails is about as close a silver bullet as you can get.

If your entire purpose is to ship a product quick, you should be ignoring the "too much magic, too many dependencies" narrative and building something, which Rails is wonderful at.

Re: Today I accept that Rails is yesterday’s software

#38

Post by astrodust »

calcsam wrote: post #5

Being "yesterday's software" is a necessary step. It's the final part of the Gartner hype cycle: maturity. https://speakerdeck.com/tehviking/surviving-the-framework-hy...

Nails it. There's nothing shameful in using a "boring, not cool" platform to get work done.

The pioneer lifestyle is full of risks. Sometimes you want that excitement, other times you have different priorities.

Re: Today I accept that Rails is yesterday’s software

#39

Post by askyourmother »

astrodust wrote: post #31
askyourmother wrote: post #12

I remember early Rails, around 0.13, pre RC, the community was small the future seemed bright. Little did we know the horrors of what it would turn into. Most of the professional people left when they saw the security circus, the endless holes and design flaws. I learnt then - avoid any web framework which has pragprog pushing a book behind it. The new one to avoid because the masses are already circling around it is…

That's a pretty shitty attitude to have. What framework is sufficiently irrelevant that Pragmatic Press or O'Reilly can't be bothered to write a book about it?

Actually O'Reilly published a good book on Rails in the early days 'enterprise rails', which was a very well written book.

The pragprog web books seem to be a bell weather, the shiny web crowd flowed into Rails, node and soon probably phoenix. The early start and promise and phoenix will soon sink under the weight once hex packages bloat in number like the festering turds within ruby gems.

Re: Today I accept that Rails is yesterday’s software

#40

Post by dimgl »

askyourmother wrote: post #12

I remember early Rails, around 0.13, pre RC, the community was small the future seemed bright. Little did we know the horrors of what it would turn into. Most of the professional people left when they saw the security circus, the endless holes and design flaws. I learnt then - avoid any web framework which has pragprog pushing a book behind it. The new one to avoid because the masses are already circling around it is…

Silly way to think in my opinion. Elixir has made me super productive, regardless of a Dave Thomas book existing for it.
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