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Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

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Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#111

Post by dragonwriter »

icebraining wrote: post #108
dragonwriter wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interstate commerce being a federal power under the Constitution prohibits states acting to regulate interstate commerce where the federal government has acted, without the permission of Congress, and prohibits the States from discriminating against out-of-state commerce generally. That doesn't mean that all State regulation of interstate commerce is prohibited, but the State's power is sharply circumscribed by the m…

Are you making a general point, or is this particular rule affected by such restrictions?

AFAIK, Tesla's argument in the cases over the direct-sales rule has been that the particular rule is a violation of the Commerce Clause at least as applied against Tesla's online sales, though I don't think any federal court has yet ruled on the specific issue.

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#112

Post by johndoez »

GavinB wrote: post #3

So a company that blatantly cheated will pay some fines and still be worth billions. The founders and early employees will all be rich, or richer than they were when they started. The investors will get a very healthy return. The lesson: break the rules and grow so fast that by the time regulators catch up, you can put on a show of reforming and still keep most of the value that you created. Admirable disruption or h…

Well they did pass the YC "Nice" test. So Admirable Disruption, of course!

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#114

Post by baddox »

tsunamifury wrote: post #25
pkaye wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually this how many successful people do it. It is better to break the rules and profit from it and if caught, pay a small fine and keep your ill gotten gains. I've learned this long time ago (watching coworkers, family, etc) but will probably never do it myself because I'm just not that kind of person.

I think there is a stage where a genuine innovation is in a regulatory grey state because society simply hasn't processed its effects yet. That wasn't the case here... but it is in many other situations. Sometimes ex-post-facto the innovation is ruled against regulation and sometimes not. Take Tesla as an example -- a company who has tried to sell cars online. Since many states hadn't seen that before, they tried to…

> there is a stage where a genuine innovation is in a regulatory grey state because society simply hasn't processed its effects yet. That wasn't the case here

Since you explicitly mention "grey state," it appears you recognize the subjective nature of both law and morality.

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#115

Post by wmeredith »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #7
MattBearman wrote: post #2

Having just read The Website Obesity Crisis[0] I was instantly intrigued by the video loop at the top of this article, so fired up Chrome's network inspector. Not only is it 6.7Mb, but it's sent using streaming (Status: 206 Partial Content), and for me at least, every time the video reaches the end, it's loaded again, and not from cache. I didn't actually read the article, but according to Read-o-meter[1] it would ta…

How many HN threads get derailed by people complaining about the web site's css, etc? It's practically a trope by now.

That's a feature, not a bug. Technical nitpicking is part of the HN brand in my opinion.

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#116

Post by schlomok »

pc86 wrote: post #107
maxerickson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with putting companies out of business? I understand that it ends up having impacts on people that aren't necessarily involved in the misbehavior, but it provides officers and investors a significant incentive to avoid wrongdoing.

> I understand that it ends up having impacts on people that aren't necessarily involved in the misbehavior, but ... The fact that you understand this could bankrupt and destroy people's lives simply because they worked at the wrong company at the wrong time, but still seek to rationalize it, is more than a little disturbing. Having draconian penalties for line employees is not going to do anything to dissuade a C-le…

But this doesn't make maxerickson or anybody else who shares their opinion the bad guy - it makes the executive.

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#118

Post by toomuchtodo »

dragonwriter wrote: post #111
icebraining wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you making a general point, or is this particular rule affected by such restrictions?

AFAIK, Tesla's argument in the cases over the direct-sales rule has been that the particular rule is a violation of the Commerce Clause at least as applied against Tesla's online sales, though I don't think any federal court has yet ruled on the specific issue.

I believe Tesla wants to handle this at the federal level, to negate the state's restrictions all in one go.

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#119

Post by mbesto »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #53
untilHellbanned wrote: post #30

> Dalgaard says. “I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone—and I’ve seen a lot of people—think as comprehensively as [Conrad] did about the market he was going after and how to build his product.” And this level of gullibility mixed with greed is why the world economy is so jacked up. Did you stop to think its because you know nothing about insurance? Conrad went to Harvard? So that he was kicked out of his previous compa…

You can't know everything about someone's past and past actions don't necessarily dictate future actions, but to correct you slightly: Conrad says he failed out of Harvard, but then later returned to finish an arts degree in Chemistry. I believe Harvard has the highest pass rate of any university (except, perhaps, diploma mills), at 98%. Using a Harvard degree as overriding credentials is a misstep.

> You can't know everything about someone's past and past actions don't necessarily dictate future actions,

That's precisely the parent's point. You can't praise someone without full context of their past actions. But that same praise was publicly used as a way to bolster the investment. "Well, heck if Lars Dalgraad says this guy is smart, then he definitely must be on to something. I should use this service" Equally there's no repercussions for making a positive statement when you're already in a position of power. I think the point the parent is trying to make is that these situations are signs of plutocracy, which perhaps is why "it's jacked up".

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#120

Post by sjg007 »

DougN7 wrote: post #16
GavinB wrote: post #3

So a company that blatantly cheated will pay some fines and still be worth billions. The founders and early employees will all be rich, or richer than they were when they started. The investors will get a very healthy return. The lesson: break the rules and grow so fast that by the time regulators catch up, you can put on a show of reforming and still keep most of the value that you created. Admirable disruption or h…

Trying to outgrow regulators is one approach. Trying to outgrow competition in a business with low barriers to entry is another. See Groupon for example. My bet is AirBnB is probably next.

What would be interesting would be a lawsuit from renters arguing that Airbnb has reduced supply otherwise available and caused rent to go up.
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