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Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

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Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#21
post #13
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oppressive regulatory environment? Relative to where, countries which have limited resources and can't enforce regulations to protect consumers?

Compared to the first ten countries here: http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

How much separates them? Other than NZ which tries hard to bring investment. I don't think there is significant daylight between those at the top. And I don't think it's a good idea to relax the rules in this area of commerce.

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#22
post #13
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oppressive regulatory environment? Relative to where, countries which have limited resources and can't enforce regulations to protect consumers?

Compared to the first ten countries here: http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

So, 90+th percentile for freedom makes the US oppressive?

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#23
post #3

So a company that blatantly cheated will pay some fines and still be worth billions. The founders and early employees will all be rich, or richer than they were when they started. The investors will get a very healthy return. The lesson: break the rules and grow so fast that by the time regulators catch up, you can put on a show of reforming and still keep most of the value that you created. Admirable disruption or h…

Anyone afraid of breaking a few rules isn't a founder. The lesson: create something people want. The rest will work itself out.

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#24
post #13
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oppressive regulatory environment? Relative to where, countries which have limited resources and can't enforce regulations to protect consumers?

Compared to the first ten countries here: http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

I'm guessing you have done zero research as to whether Zenefits would have been violating similar regulatory law in any of those 10 other countries.

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#25
post #20
post #3

So a company that blatantly cheated will pay some fines and still be worth billions. The founders and early employees will all be rich, or richer than they were when they started. The investors will get a very healthy return. The lesson: break the rules and grow so fast that by the time regulators catch up, you can put on a show of reforming and still keep most of the value that you created. Admirable disruption or h…

Actually this how many successful people do it. It is better to break the rules and profit from it and if caught, pay a small fine and keep your ill gotten gains. I've learned this long time ago (watching coworkers, family, etc) but will probably never do it myself because I'm just not that kind of person.

I think there is a stage where a genuine innovation is in a regulatory grey state because society simply hasn't processed its effects yet. That wasn't the case here... but it is in many other situations. Sometimes ex-post-facto the innovation is ruled against regulation and sometimes not.

Take Tesla as an example -- a company who has tried to sell cars online. Since many states hadn't seen that before, they tried to rule that it was illegal due to dealer-sales regulation. Do you fault Musk for hacking this (bad) regulation by trying to work around it? Is he not proving its spuriousness by innovating in this manner?

In some cases its considered hero's work, and in other's villainous greed.

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#26
post #23
post #3

So a company that blatantly cheated will pay some fines and still be worth billions. The founders and early employees will all be rich, or richer than they were when they started. The investors will get a very healthy return. The lesson: break the rules and grow so fast that by the time regulators catch up, you can put on a show of reforming and still keep most of the value that you created. Admirable disruption or h…

Anyone afraid of breaking a few rules isn't a founder. The lesson: create something people want. The rest will work itself out.

Right. And what about the people you hurt on the way to the top?

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#27
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually this how many successful people do it. It is better to break the rules and profit from it and if caught, pay a small fine and keep your ill gotten gains. I've learned this long time ago (watching coworkers, family, etc) but will probably never do it myself because I'm just not that kind of person.

I think there is a stage where a genuine innovation is in a regulatory grey state because society simply hasn't processed its effects yet. That wasn't the case here... but it is in many other situations. Sometimes ex-post-facto the innovation is ruled against regulation and sometimes not. Take Tesla as an example -- a company who has tried to sell cars online. Since many states hadn't seen that before, they tried to…

Since many states hadn't seen that before, they tried to rule that it was illegal due to dealer-sales regulation.

I don't see what being online has anything to do with it; the spirit of the rule - preventing the manufacturers from competing with dealerships - is valid anyway. I personally disagree with this rule, but the "online" part is just Tesla trying to get off on a technicality.

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#28
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to the first ten countries here: http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

So, 90+th percentile for freedom makes the US oppressive?

In fairness, I haven't seen this objection when people complain about USA health care.

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#29
post #18
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it depends on the context. Considering America's oppressive regulatory environment, and that occupational licensing is bad, I'm usually inclined to call it 'admirable disruption'.

So, being 11th (of 178) in the ranking of the "Economic Freedom" you list below makes the American regulatory environment "oppressive" ? From the viewpoint of most countries in Europe it would be considered "very liberal". (EDIT: Also the source you mention is clearly politically biased. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation )

All sources are politically biased. Some are just more honest about it.

Re: Zenefits Was the Perfect Startup, Then It Self-Disrupted

#30
> Dalgaard says. “I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone—and I’ve seen a lot of people—think as comprehensively as [Conrad] did about the market he was going after and how to build his product.”

And this level of gullibility mixed with greed is why the world economy is so jacked up.

Did you stop to think its because you know nothing about insurance? Conrad went to Harvard? So that he was kicked out of his previous company didn't signal anything? All I see is investors acting like Hugh Hefner going for the startup equivalent of the blond-haired, big-boobed 22 year old. Hollywood/Playboy is actually a good analogy because in those cases nobody cares about the young hot thing's backstory either. Fake boobs/law flouting masks everything.

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