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How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

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Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You might get it if you buy it yourself, and bribe the prison staff to allow you to have it. > Sorry: this is not based on any real experience or references, just the overall assessment of how India stands currently. Jeez, you didn't have time to search but had time to fantasize like a Hollywood script writer hashing out more 3rd world stereotypes? Perhaps we should look at the treatment and hepatitis morbidity rat…

Thank you for correction; grant me at least that I knew I'm commenting based on prejudices. Note however that I don't view the American prison system as "our" ("mine") either (I'm not from the US). And still, what I read of Indian prison is just way, way worse than what I read about the American system. Overcrowding, horrible delays in trials, abysmal hygiene. I doubt that the HCV treatment there is very good, despit…

> way worse than what I read about the American system.

Is it though?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...

- the incarceration rate of the United States of America was the highest in the world, at 716 per 100,000 of the national population.

India is 33/100k. We've got 20 times more of our own American citizens behind bars than the typical 3rd wordl country.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The drug from the original company is expensive everywhere, what India has is generics, which in their turn might lower the price of the original drug because of the competition. It also lowers the incentive of selling the original drug there at all (and consequently allowing the government to press for agreements). I have some unpopular opinions regarding the subject...

Actually, India basically refuses to recognise patents for a wide variety of pharmaceutical products. For a long time they refused to recognise patents for drugs that combat AIDS and a thriving market for generics sprung up. There was a lot of posturing and complaining by pharmaceutical companies in the U.S. and the U.S. Government tried to heavy the Indian Government, but to no avail. When it became apparent that th…

While I tend to lean more to your side of the argument, the devil's advocate in me has to point out the fact that you leave out the massive costs of research, development, clinical trials / fda approval, etc. that go in to getting a drug to market.

This not to mention all the extra capital needed to fund research into all of the drugs that never make it to market before a company finds something that works.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, India basically refuses to recognise patents for a wide variety of pharmaceutical products. For a long time they refused to recognise patents for drugs that combat AIDS and a thriving market for generics sprung up. There was a lot of posturing and complaining by pharmaceutical companies in the U.S. and the U.S. Government tried to heavy the Indian Government, but to no avail. When it became apparent that th…

While I tend to lean more to your side of the argument, the devil's advocate in me has to point out the fact that you leave out the massive costs of research, development, clinical trials / fda approval, etc. that go in to getting a drug to market. This not to mention all the extra capital needed to fund research into all of the drugs that never make it to market before a company finds something that works.

Given that people would still die or become very sick from disease, I think that medicine would progress - whether at the same rate, I'm not sure but given Western nations other than the U.S. pretty much all don't have hangups about their government funded health systems, I suspect it wouldn't be all that bad.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#245
post #147
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think it's fair to price a product relative to the wealth in a given country? I think it's quite fair to be honest.

It should be priced according to ability to pay based on income. The same is the reasoning why the drug is so cheap in other countries, their people can't possibly afford the prices. So it makes no sense for citizens of wealthy countries to have to pay huge markups if they don't have the money. It makes no sense from an economic perspective to force people to go into bankruptcy just because they got sick.

That's only fair if you believe that the seller has the moral right to maximize their earnings. I think that's questionable across the board, but certainly in the pharmaceutical industry.

As in: the idea behind capitalism (the reason we put up with it) is not that price-gouging is some fundamental right we should worship, but because capitalism works. What's that mean? It efficiently allocates resources. How does it efficiently allocate resources? By letting a fluid market with many competing buyers and sellers figure out an appropriate price.

Notably, patents of life-sustaining medicines utterly destroy that cornerstone of capitalism. People can and will pay almost anything to get that drug, so the seller can charge what it wants - that's not capitalism as it's supposed to work, that's a hostage scenario.

I don't know what the best alternative is, but I'm convinced that there are many trivially better solutions to allocating resources to medical research, efficacy testing and production than what we're doing now. Every social network, things like google's pagerank, scientific journal impact ratings - all represent alternative means to determine worth in a competitive fashion; and even competition isn't strictly necessary - for some scenarios plain old raw computation to solve for the optimal solution may be possible nowadays. We're not even trying to improve the status quo.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#246

Guess who can get them for free? those living in civilized countries with universal health care systems.

Very few countries offer free prescription drugs. Not even Canada does that.

Scotland, Wales and NI do. And England has only a nominal charge.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few countries offer free prescription drugs. Not even Canada does that.

Scotland, Wales and NI do. And England has only a nominal charge.

Right, and I think that's it (SK does the "nominal charge" thing).

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, India basically refuses to recognise patents for a wide variety of pharmaceutical products. For a long time they refused to recognise patents for drugs that combat AIDS and a thriving market for generics sprung up. There was a lot of posturing and complaining by pharmaceutical companies in the U.S. and the U.S. Government tried to heavy the Indian Government, but to no avail. When it became apparent that th…

While I tend to lean more to your side of the argument, the devil's advocate in me has to point out the fact that you leave out the massive costs of research, development, clinical trials / fda approval, etc. that go in to getting a drug to market. This not to mention all the extra capital needed to fund research into all of the drugs that never make it to market before a company finds something that works.

I'm fairly sure most drug companies now spend more on marketing than on R&D/testing.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#249
Nobody here is making the pretty obvious point: Yes, it is wonderful to blame the drug companies (who invented the damn cure in the first place!) for greed -- it feels great. But the real important question you have to ask is HOW ON EARTH do they get away with charging $84k for a year of treatment?!?!?!?!

If they are charging this amount of money, it is because someone, somewhere, in some deep and mischievous and evil place inside those big pharma buildings, has crunched a lot of numbers and figured out this is the "correct" price for them to charge for this drug. That is their income-maximizing price. And THAT is what's insane.

Blaming them for "greed" is idiotic. But you have to scratch your head and think of how on Earth the best strategy for them is to sell a product with a price tag that no individual could really afford!!! That's the real mystery, and when you start asking THAT question, perhaps you end up realizing that the answer isn't so clear.

For starters, maybe ingenious strategy devised by our hero in the article, and the Indian government's positions in generic were foreseen by one of the thousands and thousands... upon thousands of lawyers, and business experts, and consultants that these companies hire, so they quickly realized that the name of the game HAS to be that they need to squeeze everything they can out of the U.S. market to make up for the hits everywhere else.

"But wait, no one will be able to afford the drug," exclaimed one novice executive at the pharmaceutical. "Not to worry," the senior counsel said, "we have medicaid in the U.S., and that's where most of our customers will come from. You see, the government will effectively be our client, and since they won't have an option not to offer this treatment, all we need to do is ensure we have amazing terms with this ONE customer and we'll be aaaaaaalllll set." Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Don't blame the pharma companies. We have ZERO competition in many dimensions of healthcare. We have a drug approval process that costs billions of dollars for a single drug to get through, and the academic evidence is quite clear that it is actually killing more people than it is purportedly saving. I had back surgery three years ago, and a line item in my medical bill was "juice - $25." I stayed in the hospital for 19 hours. It cost me $40,000 FOR NO GOOD REASON whatsoever. I also had shoulder surgery overseas, with a Harvard medical-school trained doctor who operates on world class professional soccer players. I was in a phenomenal hospital for two days, in a private room, with nurses checking on me every hour, the works. The sticker price? $7,000. Without a penny of gov't subsidy.

Big Pharma isn't the issue. Our policies towards healthcare are crippling us to no end.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for correction; grant me at least that I knew I'm commenting based on prejudices. Note however that I don't view the American prison system as "our" ("mine") either (I'm not from the US). And still, what I read of Indian prison is just way, way worse than what I read about the American system. Overcrowding, horrible delays in trials, abysmal hygiene. I doubt that the HCV treatment there is very good, despit…

> way worse than what I read about the American system. Is it though? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera... - the incarceration rate of the United States of America was the highest in the world, at 716 per 100,000 of the national population. India is 33/100k. We've got 20 times more of our own American citizens behind bars than the typical 3rd wordl country.

Your incarceration rate is a different issue from how prisoners are treated (or mistreated), particularly regarding health care in prison.

Over here (Finland), there's a popular meme about "let's put elderly people in prison, so they get a bed of their own, a daily shower, good food and someone to take care of their mental well-being". Even if our old people's care in public institutions is probably one of the better-arranged among nations.

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