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How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

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Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#51

Post by rayiner »

bogomipz wrote: post #42
rayiner wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is "gouging?" The average wedding in the U.S. is almost $30,000. Average new car price is $33,000. Is $84,000 one-time an unreasonable price for a complete cure to a chronic disease?

That's a strawman argument and you know it. A car is financed over 5 years. You can't get financing on pharmaceuticals. The "average" wedding is an equally bad comparison and your figure is wrong - average is actully 26K with majority of weddings under $10k: http://www.costofwedding.com/ It is absolutely reprehensible behavior. If $1,500 is a reasonable price point and profit margin for a company elsewhere in the wor…

> A car is financed over 5 years. You can't get financing on pharmaceuticals.

As a matter of economics, the value of something doesn't (or shouldn't) depend on how easy it is to get financing for that thing. In fact, your financing example cuts the other way. That $33k new car is actually worth more like $40k to the buyer, because that's how much they pay after financing it. The market shows that people value an average new car at > $40k. So how is it unreasonable to say that the value of a Hep-C cure is at least $84k?

> It is absolutely reprehensible behavior.

Gilead is saving lives. Apple is making money hand over first selling shiny trinkets that nobody really needs. Which is the reprehensible one? What you're basically saying is that a company should make less money for creating products that fundamentally help humanity. That's crazy!

People should be able to get these drugs, even if they can't afford it. That's the difference between iPhones and Sovaldi. But it's the government's job to make that happen--the companies shouldn't be forced to basically be private charities.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#52

Post by rdtsc »

rayiner wrote: post #10
surrealvortex wrote: post #8

I'm conflicted about this article. On the one hand, the pharmaceutical companies gouging ordinary Americans is abominable. Doing something to circumvent their greed is something to support. On the other hand, if enough people exploit loopholes like this, and the pharma company actually felt a significant drain in revenue, they may decide not to license the manufacture of these drugs in India at lower prices. If $84,0…

What exactly is "gouging?" The average wedding in the U.S. is almost $30,000. Average new car price is $33,000. Is $84,000 one-time an unreasonable price for a complete cure to a chronic disease?

Agreed, it makes sense. And people buying it from India is like going to Vegas to get married in a drive-through chapel or going to the judge. Free market doing its thing it seems.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#54

Post by forgotpwagain »

netheril96 wrote: post #33
surrealvortex wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the criticism against drug companies is that while they invest x for R&D and actual manufacturing, they earn back at least 100*x in profits. I don't think there are many other industries that allow this to happen. I'm not entirely familiar with what makes pharma patents that much different from software (you don't really have a monopoly even if you own a software patent), but that's basically what's happening…

> while they invest x for R&D and actual manufacturing, they earn back at least 100*x in profits. If that is true, VC's money will be flooding over pharmaceuticals instead of Silicon valley. This "100x" number probably fails to account for the vast number of failed trials that is all cost and no profit.

Typically quoted values are (in the current market), approx. $2-3B per product brought to market.

Drug development is incredibly difficult -- for very good reasons. The FDA has to be risk-averse in order to protect the health of the public and to prevent harm to be done.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#55

Post by jrockway »

tomc1985 wrote: post #49
refurb wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think charging $300K for a liver transplant is gouging too? Because that's what this $84K drug just replaced.

Yes, $300k is even more unconscionable. Medicine in the US is wwaaaaaaaaaaay overpriced. Things that are critical for life needs to be priced at a reasonable flat rate above costs, and conducted with the attitude of public service and human actualization. Let big pharma reap their R&D costs some other way

> Let big pharma reap their R&D costs some other way.

That's easy: they'll just cut R&D and manufacture generics or toothpaste or something that is cheaper.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#56

Post by rdtsc »

hueving wrote: post #9
surrealvortex wrote: post #8

I'm conflicted about this article. On the one hand, the pharmaceutical companies gouging ordinary Americans is abominable. Doing something to circumvent their greed is something to support. On the other hand, if enough people exploit loopholes like this, and the pharma company actually felt a significant drain in revenue, they may decide not to license the manufacture of these drugs in India at lower prices. If $84,0…

Right now US citizens are basically subsidizing other countries when it comes to drug revenue via price gouging. I would rather it be done via some other more explicit mechanism (e.g. India government subsidies) rather than at the expense of poor healthcare availability to people in the US.

> Right now US citizens are basically subsidizing other countries when it comes to drug revenue via price gouging.

I am ok with that. They can take even more taxes out every month if it means people get access to better healthcare.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#57

Post by ikeboy »

voodootrucker wrote: post #18
surrealvortex wrote: post #8

I'm conflicted about this article. On the one hand, the pharmaceutical companies gouging ordinary Americans is abominable. Doing something to circumvent their greed is something to support. On the other hand, if enough people exploit loopholes like this, and the pharma company actually felt a significant drain in revenue, they may decide not to license the manufacture of these drugs in India at lower prices. If $84,0…

So it's fair for a multi-billion dollar company to exploit the "global market" by farming work out to 3rd world countries... But not for a customer who is literally dying to take advantage of that same "global market" to save himself? Like everything else in the global economy, laws are only enforced to protect the strong against the weak, and yet we wonder how all the wealth is accumulating in the hands of the few.

How is giving people jobs exploiting them again?

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#58

Post by foxylad »

There is obviously something unbalanced in the pharma business, and I think it is one of the corner cases where unbridled capitalism fails - perhaps because it is a need, not a want, so it is not discretionary spending.

My instinct is that pharma development should be carried out by universities (the state), so it's benefits can be shared with all citizens.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#59

Post by jessriedel »

rdtsc wrote: post #56
hueving wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now US citizens are basically subsidizing other countries when it comes to drug revenue via price gouging. I would rather it be done via some other more explicit mechanism (e.g. India government subsidies) rather than at the expense of poor healthcare availability to people in the US.

> Right now US citizens are basically subsidizing other countries when it comes to drug revenue via price gouging. I am ok with that. They can take even more taxes out every month if it means people get access to better healthcare.

Does it bother you that Europe and the rest of the developing world also free-ride subtantially?

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#60

Post by surrealvortex »

kangar00 wrote: post #36
surrealvortex wrote: post #8

I'm conflicted about this article. On the one hand, the pharmaceutical companies gouging ordinary Americans is abominable. Doing something to circumvent their greed is something to support. On the other hand, if enough people exploit loopholes like this, and the pharma company actually felt a significant drain in revenue, they may decide not to license the manufacture of these drugs in India at lower prices. If $84,0…

I agree the real problem is the high cost. It can be solved by extending patents in return for lower prices. Then the government must enforce patents internationally by putting pressure on countries that ignore patents. Another concern is poor quality from knockoff manufacturers. You can partially solve that by lowering costs because the original product becomes more competitive. You can also try to apply pressure on…

Curious about the last part. How does that work? If they make small changes and get patents based on the new formula, won't other companies be allowed to use the original formula?

I'm guessing somehow both formulae are covered by the renewed patent, but that is wrong on so many levels.

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