How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India • Hacker News Board

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#41

Post by rdtsc » Mon, May 09, 2016, 2:12 AM UTC

voodootrucker wrote: post #18

surrealvortex wrote: post #8

I'm conflicted about this article. On the one hand, the pharmaceutical companies gouging ordinary Americans is abominable. Doing something to circumvent their greed is something to support. On the other hand, if enough people exploit loopholes like this, and the pharma company actually felt a significant drain in revenue, they may decide not to license the manufacture of these drugs in India at lower prices. If $84,0…

So it's fair for a multi-billion dollar company to exploit the "global market" by farming work out to 3rd world countries... But not for a customer who is literally dying to take advantage of that same "global market" to save himself? Like everything else in the global economy, laws are only enforced to protect the strong against the weak, and yet we wonder how all the wealth is accumulating in the hands of the few.

> So it's fair for a multi-billion dollar company to exploit the "global market" by farming work out to 3rd world countries...

That makes sense. It is interesting that when usually there are "anti-globalization" protests shown in the media, the protesters are presented as fringe idiots, violent, with facemasks and so on. Sort of implying "look at these crazies not wanting countries get close to each other, trade and be friends". The truth is globalization is overloaded to apply only to large companies. And usually the more they "globalize" -- the more they create inequality and pain for those at the bottom. So then they also end up increasing border controls, formulate various laws and agreements and ram those through each country's legislature to protect segmentation and control of market.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#42

Post by bogomipz » Mon, May 09, 2016, 2:12 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #10

surrealvortex wrote: post #8

I'm conflicted about this article. On the one hand, the pharmaceutical companies gouging ordinary Americans is abominable. Doing something to circumvent their greed is something to support. On the other hand, if enough people exploit loopholes like this, and the pharma company actually felt a significant drain in revenue, they may decide not to license the manufacture of these drugs in India at lower prices. If $84,0…

What exactly is "gouging?" The average wedding in the U.S. is almost $30,000. Average new car price is $33,000. Is $84,000 one-time an unreasonable price for a complete cure to a chronic disease?

That's a strawman argument and you know it. A car is financed over 5 years. You can't get financing on pharmaceuticals. The "average" wedding is an equally bad comparison and your figure is wrong - average is actully 26K with majority of weddings under $10k:

http://www.costofwedding.com/

It is absolutely reprehensible behavior. If $1,500 is a reasonable price point and profit margin for a company elsewhere in the world then $84K in another part is simply outrageous.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#43

Post by surrealvortex » Mon, May 09, 2016, 2:12 AM UTC

voodootrucker wrote: post #18

surrealvortex wrote: post #8

I'm conflicted about this article. On the one hand, the pharmaceutical companies gouging ordinary Americans is abominable. Doing something to circumvent their greed is something to support. On the other hand, if enough people exploit loopholes like this, and the pharma company actually felt a significant drain in revenue, they may decide not to license the manufacture of these drugs in India at lower prices. If $84,0…

So it's fair for a multi-billion dollar company to exploit the "global market" by farming work out to 3rd world countries... But not for a customer who is literally dying to take advantage of that same "global market" to save himself? Like everything else in the global economy, laws are only enforced to protect the strong against the weak, and yet we wonder how all the wealth is accumulating in the hands of the few.

I didn't take a position one way or the other in my comment. But if anything, I definitely did not support the company. I was more concerned about the billions of people in other countries who will suffer because they will lose access to medicine even more. Some of the comments below pointed out that India had the ability to break patents if the government considered the drugs overpriced, so I'm not sure that's a very valid concern anymore.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#44

Post by refurb » Mon, May 09, 2016, 2:13 AM UTC

vdance wrote: post #28

rayiner wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is "gouging?" The average wedding in the U.S. is almost $30,000. Average new car price is $33,000. Is $84,000 one-time an unreasonable price for a complete cure to a chronic disease?

must me nice in your bubble that $84,000 as a one time payment is reasonable. normal people can't get a loan for something like this, and obviously don't have cash stored away for something like this, and like the article mentioned, the op won't get covered by insurance even though he's done his part and paid insurance premiums. he clearly had no other options. glad you drive a $33k car. seems like the op doesn't.

Do you think charging $300K for a liver transplant is gouging too? Because that's what this $84K drug just replaced.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#45

Post by tomc1985 » Mon, May 09, 2016, 2:13 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #10

surrealvortex wrote: post #8

I'm conflicted about this article. On the one hand, the pharmaceutical companies gouging ordinary Americans is abominable. Doing something to circumvent their greed is something to support. On the other hand, if enough people exploit loopholes like this, and the pharma company actually felt a significant drain in revenue, they may decide not to license the manufacture of these drugs in India at lower prices. If $84,0…

What exactly is "gouging?" The average wedding in the U.S. is almost $30,000. Average new car price is $33,000. Is $84,000 one-time an unreasonable price for a complete cure to a chronic disease?

That's 2x to 3x the before-tax income of your average non-tech-employed American. Are you kidding?!?!

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#46

Post by themartorana » Mon, May 09, 2016, 2:13 AM UTC

vdance wrote: post #28

rayiner wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is "gouging?" The average wedding in the U.S. is almost $30,000. Average new car price is $33,000. Is $84,000 one-time an unreasonable price for a complete cure to a chronic disease?

must me nice in your bubble that $84,000 as a one time payment is reasonable. normal people can't get a loan for something like this, and obviously don't have cash stored away for something like this, and like the article mentioned, the op won't get covered by insurance even though he's done his part and paid insurance premiums. he clearly had no other options. glad you drive a $33k car. seems like the op doesn't.

And more importantly, much like student loans, even if OP was able to get a loan, it prevents him/her from taking other loans - say, for that car.

Economically crushing people (and removing them from normal economic activity by way of crushing debt) hurts the entire economy except for the pharma industry.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#47

Post by refurb » Mon, May 09, 2016, 2:15 AM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #42

rayiner wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is "gouging?" The average wedding in the U.S. is almost $30,000. Average new car price is $33,000. Is $84,000 one-time an unreasonable price for a complete cure to a chronic disease?

That's a strawman argument and you know it. A car is financed over 5 years. You can't get financing on pharmaceuticals. The "average" wedding is an equally bad comparison and your figure is wrong - average is actully 26K with majority of weddings under $10k: http://www.costofwedding.com/ It is absolutely reprehensible behavior. If $1,500 is a reasonable price point and profit margin for a company elsewhere in the wor…

If Gilead charged $1500 in every country it wouldn't have been worth to invest in the first place.

Remember they paid $11B for the right to the drug and they still had to bring it through development.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#48

Post by rayiner » Mon, May 09, 2016, 2:15 AM UTC

vdance wrote: post #28

rayiner wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is "gouging?" The average wedding in the U.S. is almost $30,000. Average new car price is $33,000. Is $84,000 one-time an unreasonable price for a complete cure to a chronic disease?

must me nice in your bubble that $84,000 as a one time payment is reasonable. normal people can't get a loan for something like this, and obviously don't have cash stored away for something like this, and like the article mentioned, the op won't get covered by insurance even though he's done his part and paid insurance premiums. he clearly had no other options. glad you drive a $33k car. seems like the op doesn't.

Don't misinterpret my point: I think the government should absolutely pay for necessary medical treatment like this.

But, it's important not to confuse what are actually two different inquiries: what is the fair price for a Hep-C cure, and how do we make sure those who need get it. The first is a purely economic question, not a moral one. Otherwise you create a perverse incentive structure: people make lots of money creating things people don't need (a new iPhone model every year), while people make much less money creating things people do need (breakthrough cures).

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#49

Post by tomc1985 » Mon, May 09, 2016, 2:15 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #44

vdance wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

must me nice in your bubble that $84,000 as a one time payment is reasonable. normal people can't get a loan for something like this, and obviously don't have cash stored away for something like this, and like the article mentioned, the op won't get covered by insurance even though he's done his part and paid insurance premiums. he clearly had no other options. glad you drive a $33k car. seems like the op doesn't.

Do you think charging $300K for a liver transplant is gouging too? Because that's what this $84K drug just replaced.

Yes, $300k is even more unconscionable.

Medicine in the US is wwaaaaaaaaaaay overpriced. Things that are critical for life needs to be priced at a reasonable flat rate above costs, and conducted with the attitude of public service and human actualization. Let big pharma reap their R&D costs some other way

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#50

Post by hyperliner » Mon, May 09, 2016, 2:17 AM UTC

I really think this article is spot on taking on an issue that I believe will become more and more pressing over time as baby boomers continue to retire.

However, this line felt of out of place:

- "And then there's Gilead. It didn't even develop Harvoni itself; it made a business decision to pay $11 billion to buy the company that did so it could be first to market and reap the rewards, $26 billion worth. There is something obscene about that. A billion-dollar profit would have been a very respectable return on investment, but Gilead is getting much, much more than that"

I mean, why is that obscene? We have seen crazier returns in [insert latest "stupid" app that made billions]. These drugs are difficult to manufacture AND to market. I am sure that if the return would have certain, then the seller would not have sold the company for that amount and would instead reaped the presumed returns.

I think pharma is entitled to big returns because their business is really risky.

I don't know where the answer is. Maybe it is government-driven pharma (yeah like the federal government is ever going to be good at anything), or a SpaceX for Pharma.