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Why Suburbia Sucks

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Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#71

Post by Retric »

fiatmoney wrote: post #53
55acdda48ab5 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where my kids have access to safe streets, parks, and decent schools This all used to be easily achievable in urban neighborhoods. The elephant in the room people don't want to acknowledge is that suburbia has mostly been a way to flee from and exclude social decay. This is why people freak out about public transit to a lot of neighborhoods. The requirement of multiple car ownership in an area is a deliberately con…

Bingo. Look at the re-conquest of New York City, which follows pretty exactly the pattern you mentioned. "All private schools" isn't even necessary de jure if you can do it de facto via magnet or charter schools and theoretically open neighborhood schools targeted at particular areas.

'Reconquest' of city's has far more components than most people assume. Gay community who mostly don't need good schools. Bad traffic to make suburbs less appealing. Video Games to keep young people entertained and not out damaging the community. Vastly reduced Lead levels to reduce violence. Reduced pollution to make city's livable. etc etc. Even the loss of manufacturing and retail jobs has been a net gain for city's.

It's far from any one thing.

PS: And if you want to go far afield reduced threat of nuclear war making city's a viable place for your population.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#72

Post by jayess »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #66
jayess wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many people, usually in so-called "urban planing" positions in cities, that believe that suburbs are something that shouldn't exist. They detest the option of suburbs.

No, they detest what suburbs are in the US. Which, besides all the problems mentioned in the article, are often funded via a Ponzi scheme of development: http://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme/

Your completely un-sourced article has nothing to do with the OP article, which detests the option of people living in suburbs. Do suburbs pay for themselves? Maybe, maybe not. But you can't also then turn around and argue for cities that have massively subsidized transit systems that themselves, despite the massive subsidies, are breaking down and crappy.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#73

Post by TulliusCicero »

CameronBanga wrote: post #20

I'm trying to find words to describe my distain for this article, but I can't think of anything that isn't seen as a direct attack on the author, which isn't my goal. Basically America is bad because we had space for cars when they were invented? There are plenty of places in America where you can get by without a car. I live in "suburbia". A small city of 30,000 in Indiana called Valparaiso. We have a vibrant downto…

> Basically America is bad because we had space for cars when they were invented?

American suburbs are bad for all the reasons listed. They force people to drive, making people fat. Ironically, they make traffic terrible at the same time, especially traffic into the nearby principal city. They kill child independence by making it impossible for kids to get around without adults driving them somewhere. They strongly economically segregate people so that people don't mix much with different demographic groups. And they're usually economically unsustainable, because they don't generate enough tax revenue to support their own infrastructure (something which isn't apparent until decades after initial construction, and thus easy to miss): http://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme/

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#74

Post by update »

hasenj wrote: post #51

One thing I can't fathom about cities in North America is this sharp division between residential areas and shopping areas. I'm by no means a world expert, but the places I've been to (Middle East where I grew up, Japan which I visited a couple of times) don't have this sharp distinction. Sure, there are residential areas and there are shopping areas, but every residential area will have many small shops here and the…

I live in a newer U.S. city and this couldn't be any further from the truth. e.g. Walmart is < 2 miles away.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#75

Post by ricardobeat »

colmvp wrote: post #30

I've split my life living downtown (SF, NYC, London, Melbourne, TO) and in the suburbs. Outside my house the only thing I hear is the wind tossing about with the trees. Can't hear my neighbors or traffic or people on the street. Contrast that to when I lived in areas where the bars or homeless/mentally unstable individuals would keep me up all night. And I love all the space. Yes, it's a double edge sword. But I have…

To put the sibling comment more lightly, your idea of "living in the city" is very narrow. Most of the world lives in densely populated areas but do not have bars and drunk people in their doorsteps. The article does try to address this.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#76

Post by sndean »

I grew in up the northern Virginia suburbs outside of Washington DC where certain bike paths (the Washington and Old Dominion specifically) enabled my friends and I to ride our bikes from farm fields in the west to downtown Arlington/DC in the east.

It would take all day to do, we'd stop along the way at shops for food/drinks, and it was amazing.

Because of that and other experiences, IMO suburbia is made for kids on bikes.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#77

Post by hasenj »

update wrote: post #74
hasenj wrote: post #51

One thing I can't fathom about cities in North America is this sharp division between residential areas and shopping areas. I'm by no means a world expert, but the places I've been to (Middle East where I grew up, Japan which I visited a couple of times) don't have this sharp distinction. Sure, there are residential areas and there are shopping areas, but every residential area will have many small shops here and the…

I live in a newer U.S. city and this couldn't be any further from the truth. e.g. Walmart is < 2 miles away.

You just happened to be located close to it. It's still designed to accommodate people coming in with their cars. Unless it's a different kind of Walmart, there is usually a huge parking lot, and entry on foot is a bit cumbersome sometimes.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#78

Post by takno »

_delirium wrote: post #59
arkades wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically America is bad because we had space for cars when they were invented? I think you did an admirable job of expressing my source of dissatisfaction with the article. That, and the author interjecting his personal preferences as architectural dogma - his passage about "No Street Enclosure" was very much of "I grew up in the tight spaces of old European cities, therefore preferring the tight spaces of old Eur…

I think he's also looking at European cities with quite rose-colored glasses. There are nice European cites, and (perhaps more to the point) nice areas of European cities. I lived in central Copenhagen for years, and I really liked it! But they're far from universal, and European development models also produce vast swathes of neighborhoods and housing that suck. In different ways than American suburbia, but still no…

London is three times the size of Houston. If you did the same comparison for, say, Birmingham you could easily afford to live in a good suburb within a 30 minute commute of central Birmingham

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#80

Post by unethical_ban »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #62
increment_i wrote: post #18

Suburbia exists because people want a quiet, relatively safe place for their kids to grow up. I didn't realize this until I had children myself. I remember reaching my teenage years and cursing the dull, boring, culturally bankrupt suburbian neighborhood I grew up in. I left the minute it became feasible. Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, park…

> Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, parks, and decent schools. You seem to be confused. The article is saying that American suburbs are particularly poorly designed, not that suburbs as a general rule are terrible. Here is Gröbenzell, a suburb just west of Munich that's surrounded by farmland: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gr%C3%B6benzell,…

I believe it is the fault of bureaucrats over-zoning. I would love to have a pub and a market next to every neighborhood. I love the idea of the Post Office providing basic financial services such as checking and money transfers. Let's make it as easy as possible to have peaceful neighborhoods AND retail/business in the same area. Dangerous or loud industrial businesses still need away from residence, but other than that... loosen up!
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