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Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

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Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#171

Post by yummyfajitas »

mistersquid wrote: post #167
yummyfajitas wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many regulations of this sort - particularly within the taxi space - are merely economic protectionism favoring one group over another. Suppose the "no black people" limit were merely designed for economic protectionism with no malicious intent. Would that make it acceptable? You can add to it various pretexts as erroneous and ineffective justification, e.g. "black people are more likely to be dangerous criminals tha…

> What makes non-whites deserving of protection from bad laws but non-medallion owners undeserving? In the United States, this question is answered by Federal Laws which define Protected Classes [0]. Non-medallion owners are not a protected class (yet) according to US Federal Law. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class EDIT: provide link

Totally true, and not what is being discussed.

To quote myself a couple of lines up: "We are all aware that the law has various (mostly arbitrary) limits. The question being asked is what consistent limit should be applied in general?"

I.e. the question is "aught", you are merely reiterating what "is" (which no one disagrees with).

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#172

Post by adiabatty »

pbreit wrote: post #131
MichaelGG wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't one of the main questions (from the IRS) regarding an employee vs contractor the substitutability of the person? If you delegate work out, but must perform it yourself, then that's a major strike against being a contractor. Same for if you are told exactly how to do something v just what result is needed? Search IRS 20 questions. Here a non PDF result: https://daf.csulb.edu/admin_guidelines/guidelines/independe…

I drive a few hours/month whenever & wherever I want including not at all. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to classify me as an employee.

On the other hand, this also describes the work patterns of substitute teachers in the local school district and they're classified as employees.

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#173

Post by yummyfajitas »

tptacek wrote: post #166
yummyfajitas wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a "veiled swipe" at all. I'm pretty explicitly stating that I consider racism to be extrinsically bad - I only care when it causes intrinsically bad actions like protectionism, and that protectionist acts which are non-racist are also bad. I get the impression you have a different moral conclusion, but I have no idea how you reach it in a logically consistent manner. I take it you refuse to state your princi…

I am not required to provide you with a first-principles reasoning for why racism is bad. I get the impression that you'd like that requirement to be the norm here, but it is not. There's not much of a reason to let this subthread get any deeper, is there?

Clearly no one is required to do anything. I merely interpreted your repeated replies to me as an attempt to engage in intellectual discussion, and I was attempting to participate. That's normally what one does on HN.

Perhaps I misinterpreted and you were merely replying in an attempt to raise your status at my expense? If so, my apologies, and I accept your victory. You are a high status, mainstream person with values within the Overton window. I'm a weird nerd who follows his reasoning to wrongthink. Congrats!

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#174

Post by jdbernard »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #120
gonzo wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't feel that a city has the right to enact an ordinance keeping black people out even if it made them feel safer (I assume) Your example is specifically barred by the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, as decided in Buchanan v. Warley, 245 U.S. 60 (1917), and Shelley v. Kraemer, 334 U.S. 1 (1948), as well as Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968, codified at 42 U.S.C. 3601-3619, aka "The Fai…

The question is why is this limit good, but a different limit is bad? We are all aware that the law has various (mostly arbitrary) limits. The question being asked is what consistent limit should be applied in general?

Because being black is an inherent trait outside of someone's control. Choosing to be an Uber driver is a person's active choice, and everyone has a fingerprint. So you're not forced to do something you don't want to do, and you're not being discriminated against because of something you cannot control.

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#175

Post by SilasX »

kinkdr wrote: post #7

Why do they still call it ride sharing? Just yesterday it was in the news that Uber drivers will now accept tips. How is this anything else than a glorified app based taxi service? Maybe call it freelancing taxi, but definitely not ride sharing. On a positive note, I am glad to see Uber respecting the law for once!

It's certainly not "sharing", I agree, but I find it useful to distinguish (in regulations) between taxi vs livery services in the sense that only the former can accept line-of-sight street hails, while the latter must only accept centrally dispatched requests. The former carries a lot of public safety risks that the latter doesn't, and cities have historically (long before Uber) regulated the former a lot more harshly.

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#176

Post by yummyfajitas »

jdbernard wrote: post #174
yummyfajitas wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is why is this limit good, but a different limit is bad? We are all aware that the law has various (mostly arbitrary) limits. The question being asked is what consistent limit should be applied in general?

Because being black is an inherent trait outside of someone's control. Choosing to be an Uber driver is a person's active choice, and everyone has a fingerprint. So you're not forced to do something you don't want to do, and you're not being discriminated against because of something you cannot control.

This is an interesting principle, and it applies in this case. But it has other interesting conclusions.

For instance, your principle seems to allow discrimination against Jews/Muslims/people who engage in homosexual acts/promiscuous women/etc. And it seems to bar discrimination against, e.g., the short and ugly (at least if being ugly is not caused by being fat).

Do you endorse these conclusions? If not, then this clearly can't be your motivating principle.

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#177

Post by marklyon »

bdjdjdbeie wrote: post #165

I was in an Uber last night in San Francisco. The driver had just started driving for the ride sharing company. During my 20 minutes in the car, the driver was flirting with the other passenger in the pool, and she was visibly uncomfortable. After dropping her off, he told me how he spent 13 years in prison, how he just got out, and how he "knew the Menendez brothers while in the pen". All of this was completely unso…

Amazingly, there's a feedback mechanism built in where you can report this and they'll follow up.

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#178

Post by Overtonwindow »

This doesn't make any sense, something is not adding up here. I absolutely do not see a problem with drivers submitting to fingerprint background checks. Why is this an issue?? Is it cost? Uber is a massively profitable company, why do they fight so hard to pay their drivers a reasonable wage, and work with communities??

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#179

Post by YuriNiyazov »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #173
tptacek wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not required to provide you with a first-principles reasoning for why racism is bad. I get the impression that you'd like that requirement to be the norm here, but it is not. There's not much of a reason to let this subthread get any deeper, is there?

Clearly no one is required to do anything. I merely interpreted your repeated replies to me as an attempt to engage in intellectual discussion, and I was attempting to participate. That's normally what one does on HN. Perhaps I misinterpreted and you were merely replying in an attempt to raise your status at my expense? If so, my apologies, and I accept your victory. You are a high status, mainstream person with valu…

"You are a high status, mainstream person with values within the Overton window." - that is a very strange thing to accuse tptacek of.

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#180

Post by [deleted] »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #173
tptacek wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not required to provide you with a first-principles reasoning for why racism is bad. I get the impression that you'd like that requirement to be the norm here, but it is not. There's not much of a reason to let this subthread get any deeper, is there?

Clearly no one is required to do anything. I merely interpreted your repeated replies to me as an attempt to engage in intellectual discussion, and I was attempting to participate. That's normally what one does on HN. Perhaps I misinterpreted and you were merely replying in an attempt to raise your status at my expense? If so, my apologies, and I accept your victory. You are a high status, mainstream person with valu…

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