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We discovered our parents were Russian spies

theguardian.com

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Re: We discovered our parents were Russian spies

#21

Post by hartpuff »

maxerickson wrote: post #9
osipov wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked the 1st season and stopped watching in the middle of the 2nd one, felt that the writers deliberately tried to make the main characters less likable than they were in the beginning.

I think they tried to use a softer introduction and then harden them up once the audience got to know them. They are brutal killers, you aren't necessarily supposed to like them. SPOILERS They eventually reveal themselves to the daughter and she tells her priest. It's really pushing suspension of disbelief for me that the several additional mouths stay shut.

I agree. The only way such a casual reaction is plausible is if they are also KGB agents.

The problem I'm having is that it doesn't really invoke any Cold War aspect any more.

They basically just are Americans, meeting with other "Americans", watching American movies or David Copperfield, visiting EPCOT or EST, alongside some rather tedious non-political espionage. They (very suddenly) don't seem to have any solid association with the Soviet Union or "the cause" any more.

The now sadly all too rare Rezidentura scenes (with some of the most interesting aspects and characters of the show IMO) and Reagan clips just seem like tacked-on lip-service to the original concept.

Re: We discovered our parents were Russian spies

#22

Post by tomjen3 »

Iburinoc wrote: post #18
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were born in Canada so they should be citizens independently of their parents.

The article mentions the applicable exception: > Everyone who is born in Canada is eligible for Canadian citizenship, with one exception: those who are born to employees of foreign governments.

That's a bit of a stretch of the definition of employee. They sound more like freelancers, but this is why you have courts and lawyers.

Re: We discovered our parents were Russian spies

#23

Post by hartpuff »

cperciva wrote: post #17
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were born in Canada so they should be citizens independently of their parents.

I'm not sure what you mean by "should" here. Are you arguing that I've misstated the law, or that the law is stupid?

The law is not necessarily stupid, but an exception, if possible, probably should be made in this case, on moral grounds, since the kids seem to be victims of a situation they played no part in creating.

Re: We discovered our parents were Russian spies

#24

Post by MichaelGG »

computator wrote: post #20
cperciva wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you mean by "should" here. Are you arguing that I've misstated the law, or that the law is stupid?

Earlier you wrote: > it was discovered that they had never been Canadian citizens in the first place. Their parents lied to them and told them that they were Canadians You misunderstood a key fact from the article: They were born in Canada. "You are probably a Canadian citizen if you were born in Canada", according to: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules/index.asp where "probably" means there are very obsc…

Unless born to foreign government [government] workers.

Re: We discovered our parents were Russian spies

#25

Post by MichaelGG »

Iburinoc wrote: post #18
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were born in Canada so they should be citizens independently of their parents.

The article mentions the applicable exception: > Everyone who is born in Canada is eligible for Canadian citizenship, with one exception: those who are born to employees of foreign governments.

Even more fun. He said he applied for a visa, to use on his Russian passports. Canadian citizens are ineligible to get visas, as they are not needed. So just by him getting a visa indicates the Canadian government views him as not Canadian.

Had the same thing with my kids. Born to me (Canadian). So instant citizenship. But to travel I've got to get their Canadian passports, which requires other docs, including the passport from their other country of citizenship. I asked if I already had that other passport, could she apply for a visa? Nope, she's a Canadian citizen, even if there is no documentation other than a birth certificate with a (naturally born) Canadian parent on it. They had quite a look of enjoyment as they explained I'd have to do double the work for zero benefit.

Re: We discovered our parents were Russian spies

#26

Post by MichaelGG »

maxerickson wrote: post #9
osipov wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked the 1st season and stopped watching in the middle of the 2nd one, felt that the writers deliberately tried to make the main characters less likable than they were in the beginning.

I think they tried to use a softer introduction and then harden them up once the audience got to know them. They are brutal killers, you aren't necessarily supposed to like them. SPOILERS They eventually reveal themselves to the daughter and she tells her priest. It's really pushing suspension of disbelief for me that the several additional mouths stay shut.

Except, from the little I read, there was no murders attributed to these "illegals".

No doubt a bit of TV license. Just like the top spies or doctors spend time doing boring labwork a low level worker could do.

Re: We discovered our parents were Russian spies

#27

Post by cperciva »

hartpuff wrote: post #23
cperciva wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you mean by "should" here. Are you arguing that I've misstated the law, or that the law is stupid?

The law is not necessarily stupid, but an exception, if possible, probably should be made in this case, on moral grounds, since the kids seem to be victims of a situation they played no part in creating.

There are seven billion people in the world who are victims of not being born Canadian citizens. The distinguishing fact of these two is that their parents pretended to be Canadian; but while I have sympathy for the kids, it seems that it would be a bit perverse to say that if parents lie to their kids for long enough then we have a duty to make those lies come true.

Re: We discovered our parents were Russian spies

#28

Post by hartpuff »

cperciva wrote: post #27
hartpuff wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law is not necessarily stupid, but an exception, if possible, probably should be made in this case, on moral grounds, since the kids seem to be victims of a situation they played no part in creating.

There are seven billion people in the world who are victims of not being born Canadian citizens. The distinguishing fact of these two is that their parents pretended to be Canadian; but while I have sympathy for the kids, it seems that it would be a bit perverse to say that if parents lie to their kids for long enough then we have a duty to make those lies come true.

Who is saying anything remotely like "if parents lie to their kids for long enough then we have a duty to make those lies come true"?

Unless you're claiming 7 billion people in the world were born in Canada, the most distinguishing fact about these two is obviously not that their parents pretended to be Canadian.

Re: We discovered our parents were Russian spies

#30

Post by jnbiche »

Iburinoc wrote: post #18
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were born in Canada so they should be citizens independently of their parents.

The article mentions the applicable exception: > Everyone who is born in Canada is eligible for Canadian citizenship, with one exception: those who are born to employees of foreign governments.

So do the children of "actual" Canadians who betrayed their true country and turned to work for foreign, non-Canadian governments have their citizenship annulled? The children of the Canadian counterparts to Ames and Hansson? (I'm sure there have been some)

Or have about those Canadians who work legitimately for foreign embassies? Canada clearly has those [1]. I assume their kids don't have their citizenship retracted.

My guess that this is meant as some sort of punitive action against the parents, but it seems wrong to punish the children. Even assuming the kids knew, as the article pointed out, what's a 16-year old who finds out his parents are foreign spies supposed to do? Call the FBI? I can see children in a totalitarian country reacting that way out of fear or an excess of patriotism, but have we really reached that point here in the West?

1. http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/ntcs/frgn-eng.html

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