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Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

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Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#51
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it even remotely reasonable that taxi drivers should have background checks? Are we really that worried about rogue taxi drivers? What is the worst case scenario here? What exactly does a background check for taxi drivers prevent? The idea that the state should have anything to say about driving a car in exchange for money is absurd on its face and nothing more than the worst, silliest kind of security theater…

The state uses regulation for health and safety purposes all the time. Valid or not, the state, affirmed by democratic vote, wants fingerprinting as an additional assurance of driver fitness. Let me turn this around: what in particular about driving passengers for profit means they should be exempt from regulation? Or do you simply reject regulation on some sort of absolutist libertarian principle?

I wasn't making an argument about whether or not the government has the authority to do this. Of course they do, and of course the people have the right to vote for it, and the companies are bound by it.

I was arguing that the regulation itself is inadvisable, and I don't think the position is particularly absolutist. The government should step in to regulate areas that pose a significant risk to the public, but that the market does a poor job of regulating on its own. Things like food safety and environmental protections are prime examples of this. Taxi driving is not.

The damage causable by a single rogue taxi driver is, at its worst, minimal and not much different from the damage that can be caused by any random malicious citizen. If a rapist or murderer wants to rape and murder, being a taxi driver helps them in so doing marginally at best.

Do you know what does do a pretty good job at regulating taxi drivers? An instant, non-optional review system.

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#52
post #41
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it even remotely reasonable that taxi drivers should have background checks? Are we really that worried about rogue taxi drivers? What is the worst case scenario here? What exactly does a background check for taxi drivers prevent? The idea that the state should have anything to say about driving a car in exchange for money is absurd on its face and nothing more than the worst, silliest kind of security theater…

Getting in a car with random strangers is a perfect case of information asymmetry. Passengers aren't going to be repeat customers with the same drivers. Each driver is pretty much an unknown that the passenger has little control over choosing. On the broader point about what the government should be regulating: One of the worst things about living outside the developed world is how careful you have to be. You have to…

I couldn't disagree more. Whether or not a passenger is a repeat customer of a driver is irrelevant, the drivers are rated by each passenger (at least for uber, this is non-optional), and if their rating gets too low, they stop getting fares. This system is infinitely more effective, efficient, fair and maybe most importantly, up to date, than any background check or fingerprinting system ever could be.

And not only is it effective at protecting the public, it actually incentivizes the driver to be better than the bare minimum (which is what is encouraged by simple background checks).

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#53
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a business feels like regulations created by the government are not reasonable, it has all the right to decide to stop doing business. Government shouldn't be regulating such things in the first place, but since it does, it surely can't force businesses to continue working under them. > but it doesn't seem entirely outrageous that the drivers of buses, taxis, and similar transportation services should have them. I…

One of them could take all of the other's business in Austin by integrating with a background check service, but they were both either too stubborn or too slow to implement integration with such a service in case their proposition failed. Now they're both losing business on top of the money already lost campaigning.

I really think the fingerprinting is a red herring. I think they were just trying to set a precedent to simplify their regulatory landscape.

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, it's not easy, and it's an artificial barrier to entry created by the government to enter the space. This has absolutely nothing to do with safety and everything to do with special interests (taxi companies) lobbying to keep competition out of the area.

You're very misinformed. I live in the area. Uber/Lyft have campaigned really aggressively. I've got stuff from them in the mail, they contacted me at my unlisted cell, they've been canvassing hard for months. I've never even seen an "anti" ad. The "pro" Uber/Lyft PAC spent north of $8m, while the "anti" PAC spent 1/40th of that [0]. This is by far the most money ever spent on any election in this city's history, by…

I live in the area too, and it is known that politicians involved in the bill have conflicts of interest with the cab companies.

Here's JDI's response to Mike Maples argument that mentions it. http://josh.jones-dilworth.com/post/138468651784/in-response...

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#55
post #2

I feel like I'm missing something. Reasonable people can disagree about what jobs should/should not require a background check, but it doesn't seem entirely outrageous that the drivers of buses, taxis, and similar transportation services should have them. > Unfortunately, the rules passed by the City Council don’t allow true ridesharing to operate. Why? Like, I read the whole article twice, and I'm still confused. It…

> Would their drivers refuse to undergo them? Refuse is probably a strong word here but I imagine significantly less people are willing to drive in somewhere to give their fingerprints for a background check than just entering a social security number in a web form. So there's more inherent friction. But then Uber needs to maintain an office (or a set of offices) in every city that provides convenient parking and som…

Usually, there are existing providers of such services (including often local law enforcement offices), and employers subject to a requirement for fingerprinting just have applicants designate the employer as the recipient, go into the established fingerprint center, and get it done.

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#56
post #7

Why do they still call it ride sharing? Just yesterday it was in the news that Uber drivers will now accept tips. How is this anything else than a glorified app based taxi service? Maybe call it freelancing taxi, but definitely not ride sharing. On a positive note, I am glad to see Uber respecting the law for once!

I find it to be a useful term to delineate the apps from traditional taxi services in conversation but otherwise I agree entirely. Both firms likely enjoy the term in press coverage because it makes them seem less threatening.

I use the term "ride hailing" for this, because for the most part the "sharing economy" has no actual "sharing" whatsoever.

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#57
post #2

I feel like I'm missing something. Reasonable people can disagree about what jobs should/should not require a background check, but it doesn't seem entirely outrageous that the drivers of buses, taxis, and similar transportation services should have them. > Unfortunately, the rules passed by the City Council don’t allow true ridesharing to operate. Why? Like, I read the whole article twice, and I'm still confused. It…

> Why? Like, I read the whole article twice, and I'm still confused. It's being presented as "Uber is literally unable to operate with this rule in place", but why? Do they need to fund the background checks? Are they too expensive? Would their drivers refuse to undergo them? Would their drivers fail them? Do taxi companies face the same rules? How is it they can maintain service?

Because proposition 1 contained other parts. Not just the background check stuff: http://kut.org/post/explaining-exactly-what-yes-and-no-vote-...

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#58

Is the issue the cost of fingerprint checks? Can't fingerprint checks be made cheaper? Isn't there a YC company that is in the background check business? Edit: Ah yes, https://checkr.com/

> Is the issue the cost of fingerprint checks? Can't fingerprint checks be made cheaper? The logistics and costs are both high. Honestly I'm all for background checks but fingerprinting is completely unrealistic. There are a lot of on-demand services nowadays some of which drive you places, others go into your home. I can't imagine Uber and Lyft will be the only ones required to do fingerprinting eventually. Someone…

Have you ever had to get a background check? I have. The FBI background check requires ink fingerprints which you get at a police station. Takes 15 minutes and I think $10. Georgia State background check accepts an electronic livescan which i had done at a UPS store. This is easier than getting your car emission tested.

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#59
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a business feels like regulations created by the government are not reasonable, it has all the right to decide to stop doing business. Government shouldn't be regulating such things in the first place, but since it does, it surely can't force businesses to continue working under them. > but it doesn't seem entirely outrageous that the drivers of buses, taxis, and similar transportation services should have them. I…

One of them could take all of the other's business in Austin by integrating with a background check service, but they were both either too stubborn or too slow to implement integration with such a service in case their proposition failed. Now they're both losing business on top of the money already lost campaigning.

In case you didn't notice, it's not about fingerprints. It's about the principle. It's a fight between business and government. Government wants money and control, businesses show they can't be blackmailed like that and pull out. There is literally nothing Uber or Lyft did wrong. They have all the right in the world to take their business elsewhere.

If I believed in democracy, I'd say people should be voting better next time, but I don't.

Re: Lyft and Uber to Halt Operations in Austin After Voters Reject Proposal

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why fingerprinting has to be such a hassle. It wasn't for me. I was able to schedule, online, an appointment with my sheriff's department, get digitally fingerprinted, and background checked all within five days for under $50. Granted, the privacy aspect is the ever-present issue.

> I was able to schedule, online, an appointment with my sheriff's department, get digitally fingerprinted, and background checked all within five days for under $50. I think you just described a good part of the hassle. Not everyone driving for Uber / Lyft have $50 to use for fingerprinting services and a similar cost, even heavily discounted, represents a significant cost to the companies if they're covering it. Th…

People who drive for Lyft/Uber need a newer car with insurance and registration. The cost and regulatory burden of getting a background check is not significant in comparison to a car payment.
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