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OxyContin's 12-hour problem

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Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#231

Post by ssmoot »

CydeWeys wrote: post #208
ssmoot wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also don't think you have much personal experience people who have been addicted to opiates. I said as much. Which is a good enough reason to be suspicious of prohibition for me. And to be clear, I'd find it very difficult to believe anyone gets a two week supply of opiates after surgery and goes all Reefer Madness after following the directions on the prescription. You're talking about people who abuse the drug.…

You're arguing against a strawman. I'm not in favor of banning opioids and I don't know where you even got that impression from.

I assumed you were replying to my comment you quoted. Sounds like we misunderstood each other.

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#233

Post by koluft »

groovy2shoes wrote: post #190
GhotiFish wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That means you can't take half the pill and a few hours later the other half which is what some people did to get around the false 12hr relief advertising before the DEA and other government meddlers got involved. can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure how the mechanism works to prevent splitting the pill in two. (I'm not sure how the mechanism works at all, really.) I found this article: http://www.popsci.com/sci…

Pills in tablet form typically consist of the active ingredients mixed with a buffering agent and a caking agent, followed by a coating. Those agents and coating hold the pill together as a tablet, but are not particularly strong and can easily be cut, crushed, or shaved. The "abuse-resistant" tablets are made by mixing the active ingredients with a polymer, a plastic- or glue-like substance that, when dried, is very…

What do addicts crush/shoot drugs, instead of just eating them?

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#234

Post by coleca »

My late father was addicted to Percocet / Percodan for much of his life after being severely wounded in the Korean War and then followed by the prostate cancer that was his ultimate demise. In the 90s, his doctor switched him to Oxycontin because of its ease of dosage (it's hard to remember when you took your last pill when you're high). Neither I nor his doctors knew that this 12 hour claim was just so that Purdue could defend its patent, despite the studies (according to this article) that pointed to it lasting far less than 12 hours.

Reading this article now helps me to better understand the pain and suffering he endured from these drugs and now give me insight into the lengths he went to for "rescue" medication, which included doctor shopping and paying retail price for more than half of his meds so that his insurance company wouldn't report him to the state or DEA (he did get caught eventually).

It boggles my mind to think how an industry whose purpose is to help people can become so corrupt and I wonder whether there is any hope of this getting better before it gets much worse. With the mainstream media playing enabler, it's doubtful it will ever happen (name the last news broadcast that wasn't wrapped end to end in big pharma advertising).

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#236

Post by paul_f »

digler999 wrote: post #200
ThePaco wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so because the government created a regulatory environment that requires drug companies to find people like this that know how to get their drugs approved.

> a regulatory environment that requires the regulatory environment only "requires" this if your drug doesn't work as advertised. The other way to get your drug approved is to, you know, not make phony claims about its efficacy.

If you don't know how and when and where and exactly what format to file your documents, you don't get approval. Simply working isn't sufficient. It's a complex process and having well connected experts is of extreme value.

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#237

Post by DanBC »

MichaelGG wrote: post #224
capote wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would make the economic cost of addiction lower for the individual Isn't a low cost of addiction a bad thing? I'm also not just talking about legalization, but mainly the thing about deregulation/competition. I see your logic though, I hope it's not too wishful to assume that less doctors pushing drugs on patients will solve the issue. I suppose it definitely will cut it back some.

No, it's a good thing. It means people that are addicted (by choice or not) don't need to resort to crime or desperation to buy essential medicines. Less doctors "pushing" really means more doctors being very critical of patients. Which means more people in pain, scared to make too big a fuss, lest they be labeled an "addict" or "seeker". We don't accept (in theory) a legal system that condemns innocent people to suf…

A number of people in this thread are saying the answer is either to prescribe opiates, or to leave people in pain.

People who need opiates should be able to get them, but that's a small number of people. Giving opiates to the rest does very little to treat their pain, and leaves them with an opiate addiction.

Most people with long term pain don't need better access to opiates. They need better access to pain clinics with the range of meds and physical therapies they have. (And yes, opiates if those are needed.)

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#238

Post by dang »

mbrutsch wrote: post #210
dang wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop posting uncivil and unsubstantive comments to Hacker News. We're looking for thoughtful discussion here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

Ooh, comments not visible when not logged in. Very 2009.

I assume you're talking about https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11651039, which was flagged by users. However, since you don't seem to want to use the site as intended, we've banned your account.

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#239

Post by VeejayRampay »

jakobegger wrote: post #141

I can't believe how doctors apparently routinely prescribe addictive painkillers in the US. Here in Europe, as far as I know, doctors only prescribe non-opioid painkillers. I don't know anyone who was prescribed an opioid drug outside of an ICU. Ibuprofen is surprisingly effective for many types of pain, I don't see why doctors immediately prescribe something as dangerous as OxyContin.

You can buy opioids over the counter in France. Codoliprane for example has 500mg of paracetamol combined with 30mg of codeine. Codeine is not the hardest opioid, but still...

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#240

Post by empath75 »

capote wrote: post #113
mwsherman wrote: post #89

The problems derive from the prohibition, which takes several forms. The forms add up for big profits and bad incentives, for which the consumer pays. FDA approval is the first layer of prohibition. Very expensive, this keeps a lot of competitors out. Lots of market (read: pricing) power is conferred to the winners. Great incentive is provided for regulatory capture. The second layer is patent protection. Again, comp…

Can you explain more how competition, availability, and legality will stop the more addiction-prone (low-income, chronic pain among other health problem) parts of society in America from doing drugs and becoming addicted? If I read your argument correctly, it's that the pharma firms will not market it as much and not profit as much. In my mind that's not enough reasoning that people who simply have a bad situation wo…

Addicts are going to get fucked up on whatever they can find. If they can't find opiates or whatever, they're going to get fucked up on cough syrup, or booze or huffing paint or whatever.

In general, though, addicts don't necessarily go straight to the hard stuff or inevitably to the hard stuff, if other options are available. Prohibition actually encourages people to go to the hardest purest forms, though.

When you're moving around contraband, you want the most expensive high you can get in the smallest volume. It's easier to move around heroin or crack than something like codeine or coca wine, so that's what's going to be available on the street.

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