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Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

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Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#121
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean whatever their sex? Gender is such a strange term.

When investigating the intersection of unconscious attitudes (often shaped by culture) and performance, gender is more relevant than sex. It's not whether you have this equipment or that but what groups you are perceived to belong to and what groups you see yourself as belonging to. In some cultures there are third genders with different cultural expectations: the Hijra in India, Kathoey in Thailand, some other group…

>> It's not whether you have this equipment or that but what groups you are perceived to belong to and what groups you see yourself as belonging to.

The problem with that is that most of the time the group you're perceived to belong to and what groups you identify with do have everything to do with your "equipment".

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#122
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex is the biology; Gender is the identity. Discrimations are based on gender, not sex. Women are told to wear pink dresses because of how our society see women (female gender), not because they have a vagina (female sex).

Why does one need a gender identity?

We only need it because we live in groups. If we were all by ourselves we would not need this language (and much other language). Much of language is for signaling.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#123
post #21

I'm a man and I really dislike competitive aspects of society. I mean if I'm playing a game and it's for fun, I'm okay with it, as long as everyone play to play, not play to win. If I'm literally competing to earn a living, or if it ends up in praising winners and blaming losers, it won't be enjoyable, and I'd rather not play at all. Having humility also means that when you win, you also congratulate losers for playi…

Like or dislike, you would be the first to die in 99% of societies, human or otherwise. This may get downvoted but don't shoot the messenger. You can't "hate" something that just "is".

You're way off base. It's people who challenge the current leaders that get beaten back the hardest. That is, it's people in second place who suffer, because they're a threat; people way back in the mass are invisible.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#124
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean whatever their sex? Gender is such a strange term.

When investigating the intersection of unconscious attitudes (often shaped by culture) and performance, gender is more relevant than sex. It's not whether you have this equipment or that but what groups you are perceived to belong to and what groups you see yourself as belonging to. In some cultures there are third genders with different cultural expectations: the Hijra in India, Kathoey in Thailand, some other group…

> When investigating the intersection of unconscious attitudes (often shaped by culture) and performance, gender is more relevant than sex.

This is a very broad statement which is trivial to prove false. Look at powerlifting: men perform better than women, and testosterone plays a well-understood role in this performance. This is a function of sex, not gender. And while it's most numerically provable and obvious in powerlifting, this is true for a lot of sports.

At a more fundamental level, I question whether the gender/sex divide is scientifically valid. One can point to the example of a transman and say, "Their female sex didn't align with their male gender at birth" but that seems like a very surface assessment; it's also possible that chemicals released by (for example) their brain or pituitary, are causing the dysphoria they experienced. Are we to claim that ovaries and testicles are sex, and the brain and pituitary is gender? Or might it make more sense to broaden our understanding of sex to realize that genitalia aren't the only organs regulating sex, and instead say that the transperson wasn't born female, but was instead born with a mixture of sex characteristics, and only the most obvious sex characteristics were female, while the characteristics which more fundamentally defined their identity were male.

In a larger sense, this seems related to the categorization error of separating mind and body as if they are two different things, a separation which seems more clearly false.

NOTE: Please don't construe anything I say as negative toward transpeople. I think humans have an inherent, fundamental right to define their identities and modify their bodies in any way they choose. People don't need excuses or justification to exercise that right. Certainly we don't need an abstract distinction between sex and gender to let people dress and socialize with people the way they want or change their bodies.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm Im an American (and a Nerd) and that doesn't sound at all right to me. The N word is used to denigrate anyone who does well academically. Its used to shore up self-image for those that don't do well I imagine - "Sure Joe is great at this subject but that's Nerdy so Ha! I'm superior to him" There was never any need to brag, to be called a Nerd. Just score well, and the bullies would whisper (and yell in the hall) N…

How did the bullies know Joe did well if he didn't brag?

Praise from teachers. Other visible signals, like reading voluntarily, showing interest in challenging work, etc. I agree that bragging isn't really part of being a nerd.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gender is more relevant than sex No it's not. The underlying biological reality is that humans reproduce sexually. All gender roles are social elaborations and heuristics that evolve(d) to regulate and structure the biological reproduction of humans. All gender roles directly or indirectly refer to the sexual binary between males (= can father children) and females (= can give birth to children). E.g. the concept of…

The binary between female and male is kind of awkward to say, especially if you're using biological terms. I'm pretty sure that intersex is considered a very normal, if relatively rare,variation of human sex biology. Intersex isn't extremely rare either and isn't a defect so the idea of a biological binary confuses me.

   intersex is considered a very normal
To a quantitative biologist, maybe. But that's the wrong point of reference, as they don't make mainstream culture.

Sexual reproduction so as to perpetuate humanity is the single most important function a society executes. All human culture directly or indirectly relates to this task. One of the key tasks in this context is the choice of partner(s) whom to reproduce with. Alas, not any two humans can reproduce together. Indeed, an exact determination who can successfully reproduce with whom is still not possible in 2016, although we are much better at this task than say 1000 years ago.

Given that we can't predict mate compatibility perfectly, humanity needs heuristics to make this decision efficiently. The following heuristics are being used in practise:

- Divide humans into two, male and female, based on the shape of their genitalia.

- Have sex with members of the opposite group.

Humans use additional heuristics for deciding with whom to mate, e.g. social status, age, but the male/female binary is by a large margin the most important.

As you correctly point out, not all humans neatly fall into the genital-shape based classification between. But it doesn't matter, because the heuristic works so well that humans can reproduce successfully by ignoring those outliers. That means outliers must be infrequent enough (say > 99% fit the binary).

I can't overemphasise this: the heuristic has been extremely successful.

The very concept intersex makes sense only in contradistinction from binary normalcy. To see this, consider the fact that most humans have 10 fingers, but not all. Yet, there is no socially relevant concept of 'interhanded' people, no pressure groups, nobody claims to have been born with the wrong number of fingers, no finger reassignment surgery etc. That's because the number of fingers is not all that important.

In the future we might have a refined classification, as our understanding of human reproduction has improved immeasurably in the last century. But note that a finer classification still relates to biological facts about human bodies. It would probably be something along the lines of

- Can give birth to children, i.e. falls in the category woman, despite non-standard genitalia.

- Can father children, i.e. falls in the category man, despite non-standard genitalia.

- Can neither father children, nor give birth to children.

In other words, it would be a refinement of the male/female binary.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#127
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sex is the biology; Gender is the identity That's only a very recent distinction, and still a contentious one. According to Merriam-Webster ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender ) and the OED ( http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/english/gend... ), it's far from clear.

Based on what the dictionary says? The idea that gender and sex mean two different things isn't contentious amongst the people who study the phenomenon academically.

Every generation of soft social "scientists" (I use scare quotes because they don't usually use the scientific method. When I say "soft" social scientists I mean e.g. Gender studies people as opposed to demographers.) tends to disagree with the previous generation on huge fundamental tenets for mostly arbitrary reasons. It is wise to take any dictionary-defying claims from these fields with a large grain of salt, because there's a substantial chance that such a claim is made for social or political (but not scientific) reasons.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#128
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean whatever their sex? Gender is such a strange term.

Sex is the biology; Gender is the identity. Discrimations are based on gender, not sex. Women are told to wear pink dresses because of how our society see women (female gender), not because they have a vagina (female sex).

> Sex is the biology; Gender is the identity.

What evidence do you have that identity doesn't originate in biology?

I'm well-aware of the existence of transpeople, but I'm not ready to conclude that gender dysphoria doesn't originate in biology. There's more to a person's biology than their genitalia.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm Im an American (and a Nerd) and that doesn't sound at all right to me. The N word is used to denigrate anyone who does well academically. Its used to shore up self-image for those that don't do well I imagine - "Sure Joe is great at this subject but that's Nerdy so Ha! I'm superior to him" There was never any need to brag, to be called a Nerd. Just score well, and the bullies would whisper (and yell in the hall) N…

How did the bullies know Joe did well if he didn't brag?

You go to a school where the grades are read out loud or published in some form.

This isn't unique to the Middle East. Its often no secret who the valedictorian of your class will be in my experience (American school)... even if the grades weren't revealed.

In any case, "Nerd" in my experience means something closer to the hobbies you persue. "Geeks" play video games and academically do good in "computer stuff" and music. "Nerds" pursue theater, LARP, and table-top RPGs (Dungeons and Dragons, Pathfinder, World of Darkness, etc.)

The intersection of "Nerds" and "Geeks" is anime, comic book heroes, and sci-fi.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm Im an American (and a Nerd) and that doesn't sound at all right to me. The N word is used to denigrate anyone who does well academically. Its used to shore up self-image for those that don't do well I imagine - "Sure Joe is great at this subject but that's Nerdy so Ha! I'm superior to him" There was never any need to brag, to be called a Nerd. Just score well, and the bullies would whisper (and yell in the hall) N…

How did the bullies know Joe did well if he didn't brag?

Teachers talk in class when they shouldn't.

"Hey Teacher, how much is the curve on this test gonna be?"

"Well, it won't be anything because John got a 100."

[Angry glares at John]

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