OxyContin's 12-hour problem • Hacker News Board

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#101

Post by imglorp » Sat, May 07, 2016, 4:27 PM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #29

> it appears they offered a cushy job to a > government official in exchange for favorable > regulatory treatment I suspect that that sentence is legally actionable as slander, as well as being an (apparently) completely baseless claim of illegal activity.

Oh, come now. Such a statement can't be taken out of context of conversation. Looking up to the parents, it reads like this:

    "Says it all, doesn't it?"  -- implication of something fishy

    "What does it say?"   -- asking what is the implication

    "It is the appearance of impropriety,[...] it appears they offered [...]
     It appears dirty but maybe can't be proven."

Notice I said "appears" three times. How would a common person interpret these activities? What does it look like? This is how it looks.

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#102

Post by CydeWeys » Sat, May 07, 2016, 4:27 PM UTC

ssmoot wrote: post #71

tew28 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a similar vein, I got an entire bottle of vicodin prescribed to me after having Lasik surgery. There was virtually no pain, merely discomfort similar to having a dirty contact lens in your eye, which went away after a day. I never used any of the vicodin.

I don't get this mentality at all. I would guess a majority of adults in the US have had Vicodin or similar and I don't know anyone personally who ever got addicted. In some it causes nausea. You don't like it, fine. But I don't understand how people can be so pro marijuana on one hand, and so anti-opiates on the other. It's pain. It's not noble to suffer needlessly. It's complete BS that it's harder for a dentist to…

> But I don't understand how people can be so pro marijuana on one hand, and so anti-opiates on the other. It's pain. It's not noble to suffer needlessly.

Weed is not addictive, or even if it is in some people, to nowhere near the same level as opiates. It's also not responsible for thousands of overdose cases per year. It seems to me that THC pills would be better for pain management in these situations than opiate pills.

I also don't think you have much personal experience people who have been addicted to opiates. I have. It's not pretty. It's certainly worse than people who are merely potheads. The potheads I knew, when their source dried up or they ran out of money, were irritated, but were otherwise whole, and just waited until they could get their hands on more weed again. People addicted to opiates suffer severe withdrawal, and will do anything to get more pills. They can't simply stop using for a week.

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#103

Post by goldfeld » Sat, May 07, 2016, 4:28 PM UTC

notsotrue wrote: post #68

DanBC wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Experiencing pain has a limited risk potential in most people, especially when the pain is linked to a temporary condition. People living with long term pain are at increased risk for death by suicide. That doesn't mean we should just hand out opiates (which should not be used for chronic pain), but that we should take pain relief a bit more seriously. Living in pain sucks .

I illegally use marijuana, not for the pain relief, it's not any more effect in my case than a bottle of Jack. But it gives me a pocket of time where I can just feel okay, mentally, knowing that I will never live another day without pain. The medical community focuses too much on symptom/treatment, and not enough on quality of life. I'm not saying that marijuana is an answer here, and I completely accept anyone who s…

I feel most prescription drugs are about numbing down feeling, whereas weed unleashes a lot of bottled up feeling. Which is why so many people say they don't like feeling high. But it can help a lot with emotional healing.

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#104

Post by pakled_engineer » Sat, May 07, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

Another problem is all the anti abuse so called safeguards like timed release so the pills can't be crushed. That means you can't take half the pill and a few hours later the other half which is what some people did to get around the false 12hr relief advertising before the DEA and other government meddlers got involved.

As for the FDA guy materializing at Perdue this is par for the course of all gov positions. A cabinet minister here was instrumental in vetoing the Bank Act which saved banks millions in taxes. Of course that minister materialized on a bank's board of directors after being kicked out of office by the voters as a thank you. When that bank started making large party donations they appointed the same ex minister as dean of a local university where immediately upon being parachuted into the role credit card tables were set up by the same bank on campus to rope students into applying for them. Plenty of city employees and councillors that allowed unpopular developments ended up on the board of developer corps too only later to be appointed to special environment advisory committees that of course pushed for pro development regulations. I'm sure this ex FDA pharma shill will end up somewhere else so he can further manipulate the system to the benefit of his patron too.

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#105

Post by coredog64 » Sat, May 07, 2016, 4:31 PM UTC

lpsz wrote: post #90

maxerickson wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I woke up when I was having my wisdom teeth extracted but promptly went back to sleep when they suggested it. My recollection is that I was briefly aware of them working in my mouth but not in any pain.

It's remarkable that in the US the much more dangerous general anesthesia is used for routine things like wisdom teeth when anesthetic shots (lidocaine) are significantly safer and simpler. This leads to additional complications due to anesthesia itself, or worse. [1] [2] If your dentist proposes things like this, please, switch to someone else. (For those unfamiliar, after the shots you feel not much other than some…

I went to an oral surgeon who offered general anesthetic because he was digging out 4 impacted wisdom teeth at one and I don't do well with any kind of dental work.

Without the general I would still have the teeth today.

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#106

Post by CydeWeys » Sat, May 07, 2016, 4:32 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #46

CydeWeys wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fractured my tibia recently and the urgent care gave me a short prescription for Percocet (which contains oxycodone like Oxycontin and also acetaminophen). I didn't end up picking it up as I don't have a car and mobility is understandably limited when you've fractured your tibia, but the past the first day the pain wasn't bad enough to need it anyway, and ibuprofen sufficed. And I am a wimpy person who does not do…

> Experiencing pain has a limited risk potential in most people, especially when the pain is linked to a temporary condition. People living with long term pain are at increased risk for death by suicide. That doesn't mean we should just hand out opiates (which should not be used for chronic pain), but that we should take pain relief a bit more seriously. Living in pain sucks .

We're talking about different things. I was talking about how opiates are over-prescribed for temporary pain, like dental procedures or bone fractures, whereas you are talking about long-term management of chronic pain. I specifically didn't say anything about the latter case.

If you're in your twenties, and you fracture a bone, the really bad pain will last for a day or two max. It's better to take over-the-counter pain meds and suffer through what pain remains than to jump immediately to the dangerous opiates and potentially risk your life going a lot more off-course than just dealing with some pain.

And to reiterate, I am a wuss as far as pain goes. I'm not the kind of person who pushes himself to suffer through pain. But in these kinds of situations, I look at the various paths, and potential opiate addiction is way more frightening than temporary pain.

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#107

Post by GunboatDiplomat » Sat, May 07, 2016, 4:35 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #22

pappyo wrote: post #7

The pervasiveness of OC provided by doctors is amazing. Even as of a year ago, I went into the hospital for back pain and left with a script for two fist fulls of oxy. I looked at the doctor and legitimately thought he was trying to get me hooked. And this was at a world renowned hospital. I have to wonder if Purdue is involved in some kickbacks to Dr's who (over)prescribe.

I fractured my tibia recently and the urgent care gave me a short prescription for Percocet (which contains oxycodone like Oxycontin and also acetaminophen). I didn't end up picking it up as I don't have a car and mobility is understandably limited when you've fractured your tibia, but the past the first day the pain wasn't bad enough to need it anyway, and ibuprofen sufficed. And I am a wimpy person who does not do…

They gave me percocet after my appendectomy. I really only needed it the first day after the surgery, and then to get to sleep the next two days. I think I took 4 or 5 of the big 'ol bottle of pills they gave me.

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#108

Post by arkades » Sat, May 07, 2016, 4:37 PM UTC

mwsherman wrote: post #89

The problems derive from the prohibition, which takes several forms. The forms add up for big profits and bad incentives, for which the consumer pays. FDA approval is the first layer of prohibition. Very expensive, this keeps a lot of competitors out. Lots of market (read: pricing) power is conferred to the winners. Great incentive is provided for regulatory capture. The second layer is patent protection. Again, comp…

> Third is scheduling it as a prescription drug. The incentives of the drug company are now to influence doctors, in ways that may be more or less overt. Docs get a cut of the outsize profits, de facto.

Hi! I'm a non-trad physician, with a history in health policy and managed care before moving onto the provider side. Please, tell me more about this, in a way that is more nuanced than the urban myth of "free golf trips and speaker fees for everybody!"

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#109

Post by encoderer » Sat, May 07, 2016, 4:40 PM UTC

That 80mg oxy pill is a sad symbol of modern American life.

We idealize pills. We talk about a future where all food could be replaced with a pill. We attribute the starting gun of women's liberation to... THE pill. So many pills have captured our imagination and our culture: viagra, valium, adderall, prozac, mothers little helpers, morning after pills To us medicine often means pills.

We live lives that are too busy with artificial constraints, without enough time connected to relationships and leisure and nature. We live accelerated lives and have no time to be unhealthy. A pill that you take home and take just once every twelve hours -- at the start of your work day and the end -- is the only kind of cure we have time for.

There is a reason Americans consume the vast majority of pills. Far far more than other rich countries.

Re: OxyContin's 12-hour problem

#110

Post by CydeWeys » Sat, May 07, 2016, 4:41 PM UTC

rblatz wrote: post #56

davidw wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got some of that crap years ago. I felt good for about a half an hour, then got really nauseas, which is not something you want after surgery. Switched to ibuprofen. Pre surgery morphine had the same effect. I am not a fan of opioids.

I'm the same way. After watching a friend deal with an opioid addiction I feel lucky to have that problem.

I'm fortunate to have the same problem with alcohol. I can get up to drunk (though I won't feel 100% the next day), but anything beyond that stage and I start to feel ill. Especially back in college, I remember other students regularly getting to stages well past drunk (e.g. "wasted", "trashed", "black-out", etc.), and enjoying it, but I only ever did a few times and was always completely miserable.

In the end it was just my body protecting itself from the stupidities of the brain running it.