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Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

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Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#111

Post by SolaceQuantum »

mafribe wrote: post #102
kaitai wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When investigating the intersection of unconscious attitudes (often shaped by culture) and performance, gender is more relevant than sex. It's not whether you have this equipment or that but what groups you are perceived to belong to and what groups you see yourself as belonging to. In some cultures there are third genders with different cultural expectations: the Hijra in India, Kathoey in Thailand, some other group…

gender is more relevant than sex No it's not. The underlying biological reality is that humans reproduce sexually. All gender roles are social elaborations and heuristics that evolve(d) to regulate and structure the biological reproduction of humans. All gender roles directly or indirectly refer to the sexual binary between males (= can father children) and females (= can give birth to children). E.g. the concept of…

The binary between female and male is kind of awkward to say, especially if you're using biological terms. I'm pretty sure that intersex is considered a very normal, if relatively rare,variation of human sex biology. Intersex isn't extremely rare either and isn't a defect so the idea of a biological binary confuses me.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#112

Post by JoeAltmaier »

xamuel wrote: post #107
hasenj wrote: post #94

This is completely anecdotal, but when I was back in the Middle East, tests essentially were games/competitions. Everyone knew everyone else's scores and they were often announced out loud as the results are handed back. Students who consistently get high scores are looked up to and respected. Your academic performance contributed significantly to your social standing in the classroom. Then I came to Canada and this…

The fact that "nerd" is pejorative is linked to the way grades aren't read aloud. The "nerd" pejorative isn't about doing well academically, it's more about bragging and obsessing. It's about making academic performance part of your identity. That's what people think is uncool. It's not like the quarterback loses points if he happens to be smart. He just shouldn't flaunt it or obsess about it.

Hm Im an American (and a Nerd) and that doesn't sound at all right to me. The N word is used to denigrate anyone who does well academically. Its used to shore up self-image for those that don't do well I imagine - "Sure Joe is great at this subject but that's Nerdy so Ha! I'm superior to him" There was never any need to brag, to be called a Nerd. Just score well, and the bullies would whisper (and yell in the hall) Nerd!

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#113

Post by mafribe »

LanguageGamer wrote: post #106
golemotron wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Boys have about 14 to 17 times the amount of serum testosterone as girls and that does affect their felt incentives for things like competition. Culture can mute this but at great cost to boy's and men's health. The idea that gender is separate from biological sex is very recent. When you examine its origin you find that it comes from Foucault and Judith Butler. Both were gay. It's unsurprising to me that…

Your second paragraph seems to be suggesting that Foucault and Butler's idea is wrong because of their sexual orientation. This seems both unjust and irrational. If you believe the distinction has no scientific merit, you could cite or propose relevant studies. If you believe it has no cultural merit, you could discuss how the distinction functions in society.

   This seems both unjust and irrational.
Why? As a rule of thumb, humans start thinking about something when it doesn't work for them. And for gays in particular, the traditional structuring of gender roles has been deeply problematic, indeed even today there are many countries where gay sex is illegal. So it's no surprise that homosexuals have though more deeply about gender and its relationship with sexuality than those for whom it works.

Foucault is intersting. In contrast, Butler's work is weak. She really doesn't have a meaningful handle on the relationship between sex and gender.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#114

Post by pasquinelli »

toomanythings2 wrote: post #27

Impossible. According to the internet, girls are no different than boys.

it's more subtle than that. it's more like, any differences between boys and girls either are completely uninteresting, or can't necessarily be attributed to any particular boy or girl.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#115

Post by meddlepal »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #112
xamuel wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that "nerd" is pejorative is linked to the way grades aren't read aloud. The "nerd" pejorative isn't about doing well academically, it's more about bragging and obsessing. It's about making academic performance part of your identity. That's what people think is uncool. It's not like the quarterback loses points if he happens to be smart. He just shouldn't flaunt it or obsess about it.

Hm Im an American (and a Nerd) and that doesn't sound at all right to me. The N word is used to denigrate anyone who does well academically. Its used to shore up self-image for those that don't do well I imagine - "Sure Joe is great at this subject but that's Nerdy so Ha! I'm superior to him" There was never any need to brag, to be called a Nerd. Just score well, and the bullies would whisper (and yell in the hall) N…

How did the bullies know Joe did well if he didn't brag?

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#116

Post by pasquinelli »

iopq wrote: post #49
jokoon wrote: post #21

I'm a man and I really dislike competitive aspects of society. I mean if I'm playing a game and it's for fun, I'm okay with it, as long as everyone play to play, not play to win. If I'm literally competing to earn a living, or if it ends up in praising winners and blaming losers, it won't be enjoyable, and I'd rather not play at all. Having humility also means that when you win, you also congratulate losers for playi…

> Overall, I sense that men avoid competition much more than women do. See: any competitive activity. Which gender generally dominates a competition?

well, dominating the competition can be the result of avoiding it.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#117

Post by devishard »

LanguageGamer wrote: post #106
golemotron wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Boys have about 14 to 17 times the amount of serum testosterone as girls and that does affect their felt incentives for things like competition. Culture can mute this but at great cost to boy's and men's health. The idea that gender is separate from biological sex is very recent. When you examine its origin you find that it comes from Foucault and Judith Butler. Both were gay. It's unsurprising to me that…

Your second paragraph seems to be suggesting that Foucault and Butler's idea is wrong because of their sexual orientation. This seems both unjust and irrational. If you believe the distinction has no scientific merit, you could cite or propose relevant studies. If you believe it has no cultural merit, you could discuss how the distinction functions in society.

> Your second paragraph seems to be suggesting that Foucault and Butler's idea is wrong because of their sexual orientation.

That's not how I read it. I read it as, Foucault and Butler's idea is unproven because it's based off of their anecdotal experience rather than based off of any scientific evidence.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#118

Post by moultano »

Volt wrote: post #25
eracle wrote: post #14

I think that 80 children is too small. The different results could as been biased that there were different classes, so different (possibly) skill levels of the students.

What sample size would satisfy you?

Replication.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#119

Post by WalterSear »

drumdance wrote: post #104
golemotron wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Boys have about 14 to 17 times the amount of serum testosterone as girls and that does affect their felt incentives for things like competition. Culture can mute this but at great cost to boy's and men's health. The idea that gender is separate from biological sex is very recent. When you examine its origin you find that it comes from Foucault and Judith Butler. Both were gay. It's unsurprising to me that…

Differences in testosterone levels don't really show up until puberty. This study was done on pre-pubescents.

They show up in the womb, fwiw.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#120

Post by WalterSear »

jokoon wrote: post #21

I'm a man and I really dislike competitive aspects of society. I mean if I'm playing a game and it's for fun, I'm okay with it, as long as everyone play to play, not play to win. If I'm literally competing to earn a living, or if it ends up in praising winners and blaming losers, it won't be enjoyable, and I'd rather not play at all. Having humility also means that when you win, you also congratulate losers for playi…

That is, quite literally, what this experiment showed. Boys did well when it was a non-competitive 'game'. Girls didn't do so well when it was an inconsequential 'game'.
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