Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher • Hacker News Board

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#101

Post by eracl3 » Sat, May 07, 2016, 3:44 PM UTC

erac1e wrote: post #16

eracle wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that 80 children is too small. The different results could been biased by the fact that there were different classes, so different (possibly) skill levels of the students.

I think that 80 children is too small. The different results could been biased by the fact that there were different classes, so different (possibly) skill levels of the students.

I think that 80 children is too small. The different results could been biased by the fact that there were different classes, so different (possibly) skill levels of the students.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#102

Post by mafribe » Sat, May 07, 2016, 3:45 PM UTC

kaitai wrote: post #83

littletimmy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean whatever their sex? Gender is such a strange term.

When investigating the intersection of unconscious attitudes (often shaped by culture) and performance, gender is more relevant than sex. It's not whether you have this equipment or that but what groups you are perceived to belong to and what groups you see yourself as belonging to. In some cultures there are third genders with different cultural expectations: the Hijra in India, Kathoey in Thailand, some other group…

    gender is more relevant than sex

No it's not.

The underlying biological reality is that humans reproduce sexually. All gender roles are social elaborations and heuristics that evolve(d) to regulate and structure the biological reproduction of humans. All gender roles directly or indirectly refer to the sexual binary between males (= can father children) and females (= can give birth to children). E.g. the concept of Kathoey doesn't make sense except as an inversion of the biology-based distinction between males and females. After all, a substantial part of the Kathoey lifestyle is to look and act exactly like a biological female (including permanent genital modification), and have sex with a biological male. Clearly that's an extreme identification with the biological binary, except from an unusual angle. By imitating biological females and their conventional gender roles, by trying to look exactly like somebody who can give birth to children, the Kathoey reinforces the binary between male and female.

   stereotype threat

It's deeply questionable that "stereotype threat" actually exists. The 'studies' that claim its existence are methodologically dubious.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#103

Post by er4cle » Sat, May 07, 2016, 3:48 PM UTC

eracl3 wrote: post #101

erac1e wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that 80 children is too small. The different results could been biased by the fact that there were different classes, so different (possibly) skill levels of the students.

I think that 80 children is too small. The different results could been biased by the fact that there were different classes, so different (possibly) skill levels of the students.

I think that 80 children is too small. The different results could been biased by the fact that there were different classes, so different (possibly) skill levels of the students.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#104

Post by drumdance » Sat, May 07, 2016, 3:51 PM UTC

golemotron wrote: post #92

kaitai wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When investigating the intersection of unconscious attitudes (often shaped by culture) and performance, gender is more relevant than sex. It's not whether you have this equipment or that but what groups you are perceived to belong to and what groups you see yourself as belonging to. In some cultures there are third genders with different cultural expectations: the Hijra in India, Kathoey in Thailand, some other group…

Not really. Boys have about 14 to 17 times the amount of serum testosterone as girls and that does affect their felt incentives for things like competition. Culture can mute this but at great cost to boy's and men's health. The idea that gender is separate from biological sex is very recent. When you examine its origin you find that it comes from Foucault and Judith Butler. Both were gay. It's unsurprising to me that…

Differences in testosterone levels don't really show up until puberty. This study was done on pre-pubescents.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#105

Post by JoeAltmaier » Sat, May 07, 2016, 3:53 PM UTC

reitanqild wrote: post #22

Protip: some of us can significantly increase our own throughput if we frame tasks like competitions. I'll add a warning about not overdoing this, as someone who has previously burned out before I am careful not to trick myself too often. Edit: at least -> out

And some of us do worse! Everybody overlooks the other statistic from this experiment: the girls' scores dropped as much as the boys rose, when playing the 'game'. I'd be more worried about that. Its not about reading, folks.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#106

Post by LanguageGamer » Sat, May 07, 2016, 3:53 PM UTC

golemotron wrote: post #92

kaitai wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When investigating the intersection of unconscious attitudes (often shaped by culture) and performance, gender is more relevant than sex. It's not whether you have this equipment or that but what groups you are perceived to belong to and what groups you see yourself as belonging to. In some cultures there are third genders with different cultural expectations: the Hijra in India, Kathoey in Thailand, some other group…

Not really. Boys have about 14 to 17 times the amount of serum testosterone as girls and that does affect their felt incentives for things like competition. Culture can mute this but at great cost to boy's and men's health. The idea that gender is separate from biological sex is very recent. When you examine its origin you find that it comes from Foucault and Judith Butler. Both were gay. It's unsurprising to me that…

Your second paragraph seems to be suggesting that Foucault and Butler's idea is wrong because of their sexual orientation. This seems both unjust and irrational. If you believe the distinction has no scientific merit, you could cite or propose relevant studies. If you believe it has no cultural merit, you could discuss how the distinction functions in society.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#107

Post by xamuel » Sat, May 07, 2016, 3:57 PM UTC

hasenj wrote: post #94

This is completely anecdotal, but when I was back in the Middle East, tests essentially were games/competitions. Everyone knew everyone else's scores and they were often announced out loud as the results are handed back. Students who consistently get high scores are looked up to and respected. Your academic performance contributed significantly to your social standing in the classroom. Then I came to Canada and this…

The fact that "nerd" is pejorative is linked to the way grades aren't read aloud.

The "nerd" pejorative isn't about doing well academically, it's more about bragging and obsessing. It's about making academic performance part of your identity. That's what people think is uncool. It's not like the quarterback loses points if he happens to be smart. He just shouldn't flaunt it or obsess about it.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#108

Post by ttyl0125 » Sat, May 07, 2016, 4:01 PM UTC

jacalata wrote: post #100

ttyl0125 wrote: post #28

A single study with n=80, in a social psych journal, with a trendy soundbite conclusion? Of course it's not a false positive! The fact that the authors cite a paper by Jens Foerster is icing on the cake.

I guess you think science would be better off just memory-holing results that you don't want to know about, is that right?

That's the problem - science already memory-holes results that don't fit the authors' view of reality.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#109

Post by SolaceQuantum » Sat, May 07, 2016, 4:02 PM UTC

littletimmy wrote: post #93

zajd wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what the dictionary says? The idea that gender and sex mean two different things isn't contentious amongst the people who study the phenomenon academically.

Well, gender studies is not very scientific. It is more "theorizing", in the sense of writing obscurantist explanations for everyday phenomenon.

The difference in gender and sex also comes up in biology and neuroscience...

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#110

Post by pasquinelli » Sat, May 07, 2016, 4:08 PM UTC

spectrum1234 wrote: post #60

jokoon wrote: post #21

I'm a man and I really dislike competitive aspects of society. I mean if I'm playing a game and it's for fun, I'm okay with it, as long as everyone play to play, not play to win. If I'm literally competing to earn a living, or if it ends up in praising winners and blaming losers, it won't be enjoyable, and I'd rather not play at all. Having humility also means that when you win, you also congratulate losers for playi…

Like or dislike, you would be the first to die in 99% of societies, human or otherwise. This may get downvoted but don't shoot the messenger. You can't "hate" something that just "is".

seems the fact he's alive puts that into question.