Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's free money for them. If someone wants to experiment on me by giving me free money, have at it.
China used to "donate" underpriced solar panels to Americans. When Americans found out, they said go away! [1] They'd rather pay more than receive government aid from another country. They even have a negative sounding a name for this charity - they call it "dumping" and don't allow other countries to do it to them. So if you're like an American, it's quite possible you won't take their money. [1] http://www.nytimes.…
GiveDirectly Planning to Give $30M in Basic Income to East Africa
181–190 of 218 posts
Re: GiveDirectly Planning to Give $30M in Basic Income to East Africa
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In both cases we're talking about an infusion of cash from the outside, distributed somewhat equally Remittances are not distributed even "somewhat equally".
Compared to giving the money to banks and politicians, yes, they are extremely equal
Re: GiveDirectly Planning to Give $30M in Basic Income to East Africa
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Who knows what unintended side effects of UBI will be? Care to make a guess?
Perhaps people from neighbor countries will emigrate, seeking UBI?
Re: GiveDirectly Planning to Give $30M in Basic Income to East Africa
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most of the western world?
(So all Kenya needs to do is create a colonial empire and exploit other countries ?)
Re: GiveDirectly Planning to Give $30M in Basic Income to East Africa
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your analysis seems largely as expected but this part to me seemed a bit wrong-headed: >The vast majority though will waste the money on things which benefit them in the short term, but provide no long term economic benefit // Things like having a TV? Do you have a TV, is it a _waste_ of money too? Would you say most of the people who own TVs would describe them as a waste of money? After you've got a bed, clean wate…
> Do you have a TV, is it a _waste_ of money too. Yes I do, and yes, since it brings me no economic benefit and I could easily live without it, it is a waste of money. By comparison, my smartphone allows me to send emails, make phone calls, and generally communicate with my colleagues. This creates value. Watching TV or Netflix creates no economic value. It might create social value, but the OP is about creating econ…
Re: GiveDirectly Planning to Give $30M in Basic Income to East Africa
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
How are poor people supposed to find innovative solutions to their problems and elect governments that create sustainable wealth while they're steeped in desperate poverty? I believe that education is the tip of the spear, but are there any examples where a poor majority has pulled itself up by its bootstraps?
Most of the western world?
There are clearly ways to exploit globalization to become prosperous - e.g. the asian tigers. But it's not clear to me that historical examples are as useful. There's no way to know but I suspect the American colonies would not have prospered in the current economic regime.
Re: GiveDirectly Planning to Give $30M in Basic Income to East Africa
#187I'm a Kenyan and I can tell you that this will do more harm than good. NGO money has been distorting our economy for years now... giving people livelihoods they can't sustain, making job opportunities that create no value and making our government vestigial. The poor people that you're supporting elect the same corrupt politicians every year because they have no idea that the government is supposed to be supporting t…
Would that be enough to change your mind that they are "giving people livelihoods they can't sustain"?
Re: GiveDirectly Planning to Give $30M in Basic Income to East Africa
#188I'm a Kenyan and I can tell you that this will do more harm than good. NGO money has been distorting our economy for years now... giving people livelihoods they can't sustain, making job opportunities that create no value and making our government vestigial. The poor people that you're supporting elect the same corrupt politicians every year because they have no idea that the government is supposed to be supporting t…
Traditional NGO/charity consists of giving money/stuff/services to the poor. The problem with this is that if you are a poor person who depends on that money/stuff/services, and you manage to find a job to get yourself out of poverty, then the money/stuff/services you've been depending on will no longer be available to you.
This is a problem, because those NGOs are much more stable then your marginal getting-out-of-poverty job. So the person in poverty is faced with a choice: do you trade the certainty of the NGO hand-outs for the hard work and the increased uncertainty that comes with a paying job? The rational decision, in this case, is to stay poor and continue to rely on hand-outs. This is how people get into the "business of being poor". They're not being stupid. They're making a rational choice based on the fact that they've been given a reason not to work.
But Basic Income is different, as I say -- because it is unconditional. It should never be withdrawn. If you are poor, you get the basic income. If you get a job, you still get the basic income. So there is no downside whatsoever to getting a job. This is a profound difference from traditional NGO hand-outs.
In every place where an unconditional Basic Income has been experimented with, it has resulted in an (often quite significant) net increase in economic productivity. That is very different from traditional NGO hand-outs. So please don't think that they're the same thing. I'd urge you to research the subject more deeply.
Re: GiveDirectly Planning to Give $30M in Basic Income to East Africa
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
How are poor people supposed to find innovative solutions to their problems and elect governments that create sustainable wealth while they're steeped in desperate poverty? I believe that education is the tip of the spear, but are there any examples where a poor majority has pulled itself up by its bootstraps?
Singapore, South Korea, and Taiwan.