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NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

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Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#31

Post by thibaut_barrere »

coderdude wrote: post #29
thibaut_barrere wrote: post #27

I have that wish for humanity: I'd really like people to use words that are in proportion with what they describe. Things like: "we're dead" (when we just talk about loosing a contract or even closing one company), "it's totally catastrophic" (when someone cannot make it to a meeting, or the vegetables you had planned for dinner are not available anymore at the groceries). Come on. Talking about "worst holy war" for…

>I use both NoSQL and SQL, sometimes in conjunction in the same system. As any sane developer would, and without having to go all-or-none either which way. I don't understand the people who are balls to the wall for either side. They both have a purpose.

The fights around "tech X is better than tech Y" usually boil down to some kind of fear (of being replaced, of loosing the job) or biaised-validation of all the effort already invested in X.

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#32

Post by leftnode »

rbranson wrote: post #2

The whole idea with "NoSQL" is that you pick the best tool for the job. Most people that push RDBMS solutions try to shoehorn an RDBMS for every possible scenario. For modeling the majority of business data, an RDBMS is fine. There are many problems such as graphs, logs, lossy real-time data, etc that CAN be modeled in an RDBMS but shouldn't be.

Exactly, it's a silly "holy-war" because you can use both quite effectively, both have their place.

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#33

Post by jasonkester »

rbranson wrote: post #2

The whole idea with "NoSQL" is that you pick the best tool for the job. Most people that push RDBMS solutions try to shoehorn an RDBMS for every possible scenario. For modeling the majority of business data, an RDBMS is fine. There are many problems such as graphs, logs, lossy real-time data, etc that CAN be modeled in an RDBMS but shouldn't be.

  The whole idea with "NoSQL" is that you pick the best tool for the job.
Stop it. You're doing it again.

The whole idea of "Computer Programming" is that you pick the best tool for the job. It has nothing to do with NoSQL.

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#34

Post by halostatue »

thibaut_barrere wrote: post #27

I have that wish for humanity: I'd really like people to use words that are in proportion with what they describe. Things like: "we're dead" (when we just talk about loosing a contract or even closing one company), "it's totally catastrophic" (when someone cannot make it to a meeting, or the vegetables you had planned for dinner are not available anymore at the groceries). Come on. Talking about "worst holy war" for…

I think the article used "worst holy war" in the sense of "lamest". The (No)SQL "holy war" is just as dumb as any other computer-related "holy war" throughout our industry's short history (e.g., emacs/vi, Windows/Mac/Linux/Unix). It's as dumb as the arguments about who the best Captain of the Enterprise was.

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#36

Post by markkanof »

jasonkester wrote: post #33
rbranson wrote: post #2

The whole idea with "NoSQL" is that you pick the best tool for the job. Most people that push RDBMS solutions try to shoehorn an RDBMS for every possible scenario. For modeling the majority of business data, an RDBMS is fine. There are many problems such as graphs, logs, lossy real-time data, etc that CAN be modeled in an RDBMS but shouldn't be.

The whole idea with "NoSQL" is that you pick the best tool for the job. Stop it. You're doing it again. The whole idea of "Computer Programming" is that you pick the best tool for the job. It has nothing to do with NoSQL.

That's a really good point. Saying that NoSQL is about picking the right tool for the job makes it easy to dismiss. There are lots of programmers out there that just refuse to look at any other tools than the very small set that they already know. I think it would be beneficial to change that attitude across the spectrum of programming tools.

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#38

Post by metachor »

kmuzykov wrote: post #17
bphogan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deployment isn't the issue with these - deployment can be automated just as easily as an RDBMS. Sometimes easier. It's trivial to throw up several instances of MongoDB for example. As for hosting solutions that support this stuff, well, I prefer VPSs that I control to shared hosting with Mysql for anything that's serious. But you and I appear to have very different needs.

I prefer VPSs too, but if you aim wider auditory you should at least try to support web hosting. With RDBMS it is easy. And with NoSQL it is almost impossible. Maybe this is just a matter of time, when NoSQL will be as much widely used as MS SQL for example, then maybe you will be able to use MongoDB in a web hosting.

But if one of the purported values of many NoSQL technologies is their benefit to scalability, and you are using this tech in your application because the app needs to scale, then does it make sense to deploy this ultra-scalable app on shared web hosting (regardless of whether they support NoSQL tech)?

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#39

Post by Groxx »

jasonkester wrote: post #33
rbranson wrote: post #2

The whole idea with "NoSQL" is that you pick the best tool for the job. Most people that push RDBMS solutions try to shoehorn an RDBMS for every possible scenario. For modeling the majority of business data, an RDBMS is fine. There are many problems such as graphs, logs, lossy real-time data, etc that CAN be modeled in an RDBMS but shouldn't be.

The whole idea with "NoSQL" is that you pick the best tool for the job. Stop it. You're doing it again. The whole idea of "Computer Programming" is that you pick the best tool for the job. It has nothing to do with NoSQL.

NoSQL is primarily a reaction to the ubiquitousness of relational DBs. It's providing another tool aside from a hammer.

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#40

Post by Groxx »

pw0ncakes wrote: post #3

I'm going to declare something else the worst holy war ever. Then we can have an even worse holy war than ever was before, making ourselves both wrong.

I declare "O rly?" vs "Ya rly" the worst holy war ever.

Neither side will ever give an inch, and vast armies of anonymous have lobbed internets at each other, killing a few StarCraft players in Korea and memeing millions upon millions more, with more arriving every day.

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