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Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

nytimes.com

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Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#81

Post by Ileca »

Unklejoe wrote: post #68
Ileca wrote: post #55

I still don't see ANY value in using facebook besides giving to the market my personal data. I just don't understand why this is so popular. If I wanted to use a social network, I would use one where I can contact new people of interest, not the one I can talk with when I open my window but I won't because I use facebook.

The value for many people is: - Being able to easily communicate with a large group of your friends at the same time - Being able to contact old acquaintances who you otherwise wouldn't have been able to find - Being able to finely control they way you present yourself to your peers - Being able to easily coordinate events ...to name a few. There are other ways to accomplish the same tasks, but Facebook is coherent a…

Only your second point is valid to me and not worth the use of the system by itself. This is not worth the encapsulation around your acquaintances you are supposed to cultivate the relation face to face, not through a "wall" and mediocre public interactions.

There is a lot of means to communicate and coordinate things efficiently (it was already possible before facebook) and the "fine control" over your "present yourself" is either an illusion or proof of your superficiality. I think it is the point around what facebook was built: the superficiality of people and their need to show off everywhere and think of themselves as some public figure. I guess that's also why instagram and selfies are so popular. It's all about network connection, not about the meaningful content the network is supposed to carry.

Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#82

Post by [deleted] »

caylus wrote: post #43
arcticfox wrote: post #3

> As a company spokeswoman, Jessie Baker, told me: “The time people spend on our site is a good measure of whether we’re delivering value to them.” Eh, the same argument could be made by Philip Morris or a casino: "The time people spend using our products is a good measure of whether we're delivering value to them."

Or the DMV. "The time people spend at our office is a good measure of whether we're delivering value to them."

[deleted]

Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#83

Post by nihonde »

arcticfox wrote: post #3

> As a company spokeswoman, Jessie Baker, told me: “The time people spend on our site is a good measure of whether we’re delivering value to them.” Eh, the same argument could be made by Philip Morris or a casino: "The time people spend using our products is a good measure of whether we're delivering value to them."

I will never understand why advertising businesses (and that's what Facebook is) fail to see their fundamental value proposition: ROI on ad spend.

Jessie Baker's comment fails in two respects: (1) eyeballs and engagement time is not a "good measure" without correlating to ROI for advertisers, and (2) FB's value proposition is not aimed at users, but rather at advertisers.

Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#84

Post by rhizome »

arcticfox wrote: post #3

> As a company spokeswoman, Jessie Baker, told me: “The time people spend on our site is a good measure of whether we’re delivering value to them.” Eh, the same argument could be made by Philip Morris or a casino: "The time people spend using our products is a good measure of whether we're delivering value to them."

"Value" is pretty much the most banal dimension possible. Total red flag euphemism.

Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#85

Post by rhizome »

cb18 wrote: post #33
Aelinsaar wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Usage patterns and "deriving value" seem like very different beasts.

Well, value in sating a compulsive or addictive behavior, but not all values are equal.

That so many exceptions and alternative interpretations are possible makes "value" a meaningless term. Perhaps some day reporters won't go MEGO[1] when hearing it.

1. https://www.mattcutts.com/blog/mego/

Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#86

Post by zerotimer »

sthatipamala wrote: post #79
zerotimer wrote: post #39

I don't think we should expect Facebook to change. We need better tools that allow people to stay away from it (and other such distractions in future). We need tools that help people understand how to manage their internet time better. They need to understand what kind of emotional costs (which will vary a lot) are associated with extended FB usage. And such tools will ideally be browser addons. Imagine a browser tha…

RescueTime does exactly this.

First of all, separate app isn't the same. Secondly, it just gives reports. That's a passive action. The "guide towards more productive behavior" part of my comment meant that actively tries to stop you from negative domains or push you towards better domains.

Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#87

Post by ctrl_freak »

darkclarity wrote: post #69
elliotec wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it sounds okay to be liberated, but what if you just don't spend 50 minutes on it per day? Also, what about the argument of keeping in touch with all your high school friends and distant relatives? What about all the things I would've found out on facebook that I'm now missing out on?

Facebook doesn't just keep you in contact with old friends, it encourages you to stalk their public facing persona. There's none of the mystery and personal discovery that creates the bonds of friendship. It's not real friendship. It's like being a super fan to an amateur musician - a one way street with occasional responses. The fear of missing out? That's just one of the many addictive strings that Facebook tugs to…

> The things that happen on Facebook don't matter.

In my own experience, that's just not true. Facebook has facilitated lots of social interactions for me that simply would not have happened otherwise. Some examples:

- I was doing an internship in Australia for a few months. I posted a picture of the beach on Facebook, an old friend from highschool whom I hadn't talked to in years saw it, commented that I should come visit her in Melbourne. I did, and we met and caught up on life.

- A friend of mine invited me to go to a music festival with her friends. She added me to a group message on Facebook that they were using to plan logistics, etc. After the festival, we continued using the chat to plan other social activities.

- Casual acquaintances that I met once or twice invite me to parties, etc.

Can these things happen without Facebook? Technically, I suppose so. Realistically, I think they would happen less frequently. IMO there's a big difference between Messenger/Events/Groups (facilitates a lot of real interactions) vs News Feed/Profiles (stalking other people).

Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#88

Post by brandnewlow »

nihonde wrote: post #83
arcticfox wrote: post #3

> As a company spokeswoman, Jessie Baker, told me: “The time people spend on our site is a good measure of whether we’re delivering value to them.” Eh, the same argument could be made by Philip Morris or a casino: "The time people spend using our products is a good measure of whether we're delivering value to them."

I will never understand why advertising businesses (and that's what Facebook is) fail to see their fundamental value proposition: ROI on ad spend. Jessie Baker's comment fails in two respects: (1) eyeballs and engagement time is not a "good measure" without correlating to ROI for advertisers, and (2) FB's value proposition is not aimed at users, but rather at advertisers.

ROI-based measurement is the only sane way to measure the effectiveness of a marketing channel.

But if ad companies are measured based on ROI, then they can be easily compared against other channels. That's the last thing any ad company wants.

So to make a great deal of money as a marketing channel you need to invent a new metric, one that your company is very good at delivering on. Then you convince the market that metric is one they should care about.

It's no different from how SaaS companies regularly invent new "spaces" that enterprises need solutions for (marketing automation, lead scoring, video marketing etc) or even how real estate agents in major metro areas regularly rename neighborhoods and redraw area boundaries. If you can make the market, define a new reality that your customers have to step into, you increase the odds that your customers will measure success in a way that favors your strengths.

Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#89

Post by twelvechairs »

caylus wrote: post #43
arcticfox wrote: post #3

> As a company spokeswoman, Jessie Baker, told me: “The time people spend on our site is a good measure of whether we’re delivering value to them.” Eh, the same argument could be made by Philip Morris or a casino: "The time people spend using our products is a good measure of whether we're delivering value to them."

Or the DMV. "The time people spend at our office is a good measure of whether we're delivering value to them."

Or a hospital.

Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#90

Post by j_s »

davidwparker wrote: post #80

Last year, I was spending roughly ~25 minutes / day on Facebook (according to Rescuetime). I've never had the app, or messenger on my phone. So on Chrome, I added News Feed Eradicator ( https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/news-feed-eradicat... ) and my usage dropped down to about 5 minutes / day (still more than necessary). Unlike a lot of people here (it seems), I get a lot of real usage out of Facebook though…

A slightly less drastic / more tweakable extension: http://www.fbpurity.com/

I use it to delete game + app stories from the newsfeed; I will sheepishly admit I haven't disabled 'Deleted Friend Alerts' either.

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