H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers • Hacker News Board

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#151

Post by british_india » Thu, May 05, 2016, 9:25 PM UTC

surds wrote: post #115

supercanuck wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It baffles me that some people believe most non-American employees are just "cheap labor". It is not a "belief" because they are cheaper. Everytime this topic comes up, a bunch of Ph.D's are shocked, SHOCKED! to learn that there are companies abusing the system and to learn that Infosys, Wipro and Tata are the leading H1-B Sponsors with an average salary of ~$73,000 http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2015-H1B-Visa-Sp…

I have worked at one of the above mentioned companies and I have seen that A LOT of people would be interested in getting to work here at ~73000, which might be lesser than average but works fine for them. Also, they probably have several other considerations in this matter: - Get the work experience of working in a different country at a client location that means more responsibility, more learning, etc. - Get the o…

Hah! Abuse of the H-1B program is endemic across the United States--not just in the Bay Area. No large city is excluded.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#152

Post by gumby » Thu, May 05, 2016, 9:42 PM UTC

jorblumesea wrote: post #145

gumby wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't believe in this day and age that anyone is arguing H1Bs aren't a means to get access to cheap labor. ...If you deny this exists, you don't work in the tech sector. Believe me. I work in the tech sector and I find H-1Bs cost us a lot more, and always have (~25 years of reluctantly hiring H-1B folks from time to time). There's a ton of paperwork that takes time and costs money and it delays hiring the person.…

The way you are intending to use H1Bs is appropriate and fine. The way it is actually used is very different. It's mostly used by large spaghetti code factories that over promise and under deliver, pocketing the difference. I am not proud that my country imports foreign workers and works them to death, nor is it okay that they are taking jobs actual Americans can do. If a system has a good basic idea but is flawed in…

There are people we can't get without it. How would you replace or reform it to end abuse?

BTW I don't believe my experience is atypical.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#153

Post by LukaAl » Thu, May 05, 2016, 10:02 PM UTC

serge2k wrote: post #133

LukaAl wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the Visa you are referring to is the O-1 Visa, it is much more difficult and expensive to obtain, but it is not subject to Visa CAP (I know it well, I'm on O-1). H-1B is for specialty worker, and they are not defined by exceptionality but by the fact that they possess a qualification for a specific job, there's a shortage of US Citizen for that job, and they receive market rate salary. We could agree that the beh…

> E.g.: are we sure that, if System Integration companies have to pay engineers a much higher salary, they will be able to provide prices low enough for other company to pay it? If you can't sustain your business without illegal (or in this case legal, but certainly exploiting loopholes which shouldn't exist) hiring/salary practices then why should your business be allowed to exist. This type of thing only hurts work…

I could contend that the shortage of engineers qualified for that job is due to scarcity created by the US immigration policies. And then I'll ask you if you can't have your super high salary without exploiting the current system, your salary shouldn't exist.

Again, I'm not saying what they are doing is right or ethical or desirable. Just challenging the different point of views.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#154

Post by ConfuciusSay02 » Thu, May 05, 2016, 10:25 PM UTC

civilian wrote: post #125

xen2xen1 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/us/lawsuit-claims-disney-c... Disney laid off their Disneyland I.T. staff and forced them to train immigrants beforehand. Stories like this is what unnerves so many people and causes the backlash. Ignore it at your peril. Before this I would have agreed with you. After...

A company ought to be able to choose who they employ. What makes Americans more deserving of an I.T. job than a team in India? You're not thinking like a global citizen.

If the company is hiring someone on-site in America, they should not be able to just circumvent local labor markets thanks to visa loopholes that were put in place by their crooked crony politicians.

That American company succeeded in part because of the infrastructure, security, and society that has been set up and paid for by American tax dollars.

Why should anyone support a system that lets companies take all the tax payer funded benefits of being based in America, yet gives nothing back in return (much like the current tax code)? If the employee is living in America, these companies should not be allowed to abuse the visa system.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#155

Post by ConfuciusSay02 » Thu, May 05, 2016, 10:40 PM UTC

mseebach wrote: post #136

jjn2009 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think given Tata, Infosys, Disney and Edison electric's behaviour is plenty of reason for people to be critical of how we have setup H-1B. Illegal immigration is illegal so that is a purely indefensible position to have to be in support of illegal immigration. We have democracy and laws such as H-1B which allow us to bring people into the country on our terms (laws which require scrutiny from time to time). Any mig…

I didn't expect anyone to be in favour of illegal immigration - what I'm asking about are efforts to curtail illegal immigration and deport existing illegal immigrants? To the extends that laws around H1Bs aren't working, surely the laws around illegal immigration are working even poorer? The population of illegal immigrants is many time higher than the population of H1Bs.

The forces that support the broken and easily abusable H1B system are the same forces that support illegal immigration: the large, entrenched business and banking interests who want to keep wages low (and thus keep their profits high). These forces spend a lot of money lobbying the government to do nothing to curtail illegal immigration, fix the visa system, or punish the abusers.

I'm not sure if you're expecting to get a reply that encapsulates all of HN's users position on this, but probably the reason that you see more H1B talk here is because this site caters to people in the tech industry - affected by H1B's more than the industries that are more affected by illegal immigrants from Mexico.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#156

Post by ConfuciusSay02 » Thu, May 05, 2016, 10:45 PM UTC

discardorama wrote: post #5

Or, a list of those who couldn't afford the right lawyers.

I recommend Cohen & Grigsby.

They'll be happy to show you exactly how to run fake job ads locally in order to exclude American workers, then they'll show you how to use the various loopholes to get around what flimsy regulations exist, in order to get yourself a bunch of low wage immigrant employees who live in fear of losing their job and being sent back home.

See for yourself here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#157

Post by ConfuciusSay02 » Thu, May 05, 2016, 10:47 PM UTC

dccoolgai wrote: post #15

kinofcain wrote: post #9

None of the largest body shops being present on the list is sad. The H-1B program is all too clearly abused by large "consulting" firms to drive down wages and mistreat visa holding employees under the threat of deportation.

I've often wondered - I know there are requirements for them to "post" those openings before they get the visa - if there is a way for "concerned citizens" to challenge them through the department of labor or something... we could make a website that would let professional engineers volunteer their spare time go down the list of WiPro's (or whatever the big offender companies are) visa requests and call BS on them.

Maybe the crooked law firms who facilitate everything deserve some scrutiny here too.

Case in point: How to post fake job ads to shirk the visa rules, courtesy of Cohen & Grigsby. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#158

Post by ConfuciusSay02 » Thu, May 05, 2016, 10:51 PM UTC

Manishearth wrote: post #119

Overtonwindow wrote: post #72

Something is wrong with this list.... Where's Facebook, Google, Disney, Microsoft, and all of the other major corporations that have systematically undermined and cheated the American workforce by importing cheap labor, and then laying off the fully qualified, educated, and trained Americans?

Don't know about Disney, but the tech companies pay exactly the same for hires at the same level regardless of where they are originally from. H1B may have the benefit of being somewhat bonded labor for them, but its not cheap.

It also, in aggregate, has the effect of lowering, or preventing increases in, wages in the larger labor market.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#159

Post by ConfuciusSay02 » Thu, May 05, 2016, 10:59 PM UTC

oneplane wrote: post #105

BuckRogers wrote: post #81

I see one from my home state of Iowa. Worldwide Software Services, Inc. As a proud native-born, raised and college educated Iowan that had to leave to Chicago and Austin to find work, I will taking extra time to harass and shame them. Companies like this are part of the reason why we can't find jobs and have to migrate like cattle for them. A good example where mob rule will be a good thing. I have my pitchfork ready…

Why can't you live off of the same salary as the 'cheap' workers? Sounds to me that you think you are entitled to something...

So it's entitlement to want to exercise the democratic process to push for policies that won't decrease wages wholesale? Are you against the democratic process?

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#160

Post by klipt » Thu, May 05, 2016, 11:22 PM UTC

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #28

bgribble wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a nation of immigrants. As it stands now, H1-B is one of the few paths for technically-educated people to get lawful work and eventual permanent residence and citizenship in the US. I don't think there's anything wrong with sponsoring an H1-B for a talented and qualified person who wants to live in the US. There's room, and there are jobs, and complaining about immigrants is just stupid. That said, the H1-B…

>That said, the H1-B gives companies way too much leverage over their workers. Which is why they need to be done away with. If we still want the talent (and why shouldn't we, brain fill is good), we need a way for them to enter which does not tie them to an employer.

Well technically an employer can sponsor someone overseas directly for a green card. But that takes 2-3 years so even the best intentioned employer will bring them over on H1-B so that they can start working earlier.