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Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

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Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#51

The author never made the case that a property owner is SUPPOSED to pay for the cost of the street, so I'm not even motivated to figure out whether the analysis is correct or not. The government is not a bank. You're not supposed to "get out what you put in" or "pay for what you use." The government provides things for the public good: roads, education, police, military, etc. Of course some government is a Ponzi sche…

> some people "pay for more than they use."

The author was addressing the opposite situation -- people using more than what they pay for.

> It would be just as ridiculous to write an article about how "people with children in schools aren't paying the cost of the school"

A more similar analogy to what the author was pointing out would be that current taxpayers will receive more Social Security benefit over their lifetimes than the future value of their lifetime payments, meaning that the system is only financially sound if we assume the working population will grow at an appropriate rate such that we'll always have enough workers to pay for retirees.

Or, adjusting the analogies you provided: we are borrowing from other countries to pay for our schools and fire departments. This happens to be true. Is it bad? Unknown.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#52

I've always wondered why we pave our streets to begin with. Yes, I know that dirt and gravel kick up alot of dust, but the expense of the street itself seems a bit extreme as well. I can't think of how many times I've seen a new street go in, and just a few weeks later they cut it up and dig up a water line to replace it. There has to be a better material besides concrete or asphalt that would provide similar benefit…

I'm sure there are some road users this wouldn't work for, but check out permeable interlocking pavers. I encountered some country roads in Germany that were paved with these for many kilometers. It was a beautiful and pleasant place to ride.

These wear pretty quickly upon use.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#53

First and foremost, we need to abolish the laws that caused this all to happen. Yes, that’s right – all of this was required to happen, by law. Many people think that sprawl is a free market phenomenon, and they are exactly wrong. Sprawl is caused by the following policies – I call these Sprawl Laws; you can find them for yourself in your local city code (for the most succinct explanation, see this paper[1]): * Zonin…

It's not as clear cut as you say. Houston is minimal for its minimal/nonexistant zoning rules such as you say and it's also a massive sprawl.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#54

First and foremost, we need to abolish the laws that caused this all to happen. Yes, that’s right – all of this was required to happen, by law. Many people think that sprawl is a free market phenomenon, and they are exactly wrong. Sprawl is caused by the following policies – I call these Sprawl Laws; you can find them for yourself in your local city code (for the most succinct explanation, see this paper[1]): * Zonin…

I'm surprised you didn't mention the mortgage interest tax deduction as a contributor to sprawl. I.e. federally subsidized home ownership. Talk about reasons to ditch your downtown rental and borrow against a grassy slice of suburban land.

http://freakonomics.com/2012/06/29/homeownership-and-suburba...

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#55
I'm confused

It’s simple – here’s how it works: Say a community is built in Year 1. The community’s streets need to be rebuilt every 30 years. In Year 30 a new, identical community is built. Now twice the amount of taxes are coming, and so for time being the property owners only need to pay half the amount. And 30 years later, in Year 60, two new communities are built; as long as the number of properties and property taxes are doubling every 30 years, they can continue to pay half the amount.

Year 1, one community (community A), over the next 30 years is going to pay for 1 community's worth of roads (call it a 30 year loan given on day 1, let's say 1M dollars). So, the cost for community A is 1M dollars for 30 community-years of roads.

Year 30, we add a new community B to the mix. This community needs its own roads, so it needs a loan for 1M dollars it will pay off over the next 30 years. However, community A's roads have worn out. Community A just finished paying off their first loan, so they'll need a new one.

At year 60, we have paid 3M dollars, and gotten 90 "community-years" of roads out of it. This is no different than the equivalent end of the first year with one community, one loan, and 30 "community-years" of roads.

What am i missing from this example?

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#56

Don't most streets with houses on them have houses on both sides of the street? In which case if two houses are each paying 60% the cost of the street on their frontage, isn't there a 20% overage?

The calculation shown has a width/2 in it.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#57

First and foremost, we need to abolish the laws that caused this all to happen. Yes, that’s right – all of this was required to happen, by law. Many people think that sprawl is a free market phenomenon, and they are exactly wrong. Sprawl is caused by the following policies – I call these Sprawl Laws; you can find them for yourself in your local city code (for the most succinct explanation, see this paper[1]): * Zonin…

Well when those who have influence to block new higher density housing to be built inside of city limits and lower prices what other expected outcome could there be?

It is obvious there are some out there who would live in the city provided they could find a place they felt was worth the cost, provided the safety they require, and access to amenities they desire. However many cities have rule after rule to prevent such from being built or load on requires that blow the cost out by requiring specific number of low cost units forcing all other units up in price.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#58
post #53

First and foremost, we need to abolish the laws that caused this all to happen. Yes, that’s right – all of this was required to happen, by law. Many people think that sprawl is a free market phenomenon, and they are exactly wrong. Sprawl is caused by the following policies – I call these Sprawl Laws; you can find them for yourself in your local city code (for the most succinct explanation, see this paper[1]): * Zonin…

It's not as clear cut as you say. Houston is minimal for its minimal/nonexistant zoning rules such as you say and it's also a massive sprawl.

How dare you challenge an armchair city planner!

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#60
The cost estimates for road construction the author uses are probably roughly the same across the country. Property taxes, on the other hand, vary widely. So at most, he's proving that in Iowa—where property prices are relatively low—there may be an imbalance. But this tells us very little about whether there is a widespread problem. Go to a higher cost of living area, or an area with higher population density, and the math looks very different.
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