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Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

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Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#21

Post by maxerickson »

maxsilver wrote: post #9

There's this assumption that are $15-$18 per square foot. I'm no expert here, but I think that number might be roughly double what cities actually pay, based on this document from the State of Michigan : https://www.michigan.gov/documents/Vol2-40UIP16SubDevCosts-Y... It's a decade old, but I'm seeing only $8/square foot cost, not $15+. Using the rest of the authors map + numbers, the majority of properties are now ac…

How are you arriving at $8? The footnote on page 2 puts it maybe close to that at minimum just for the construction (the article is including 30 years of maintenance).

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#22

Post by BurningFrog »

rayiner wrote: post #13
clarkmoody wrote: post #8

First and foremost, we need to abolish the laws that caused this all to happen. Yes, that’s right – all of this was required to happen, by law. Many people think that sprawl is a free market phenomenon, and they are exactly wrong. Sprawl is caused by the following policies – I call these Sprawl Laws; you can find them for yourself in your local city code (for the most succinct explanation, see this paper[1]): * Zonin…

It's interesting that some of the most charming neighborhoods in the country (e.g. Chelsea in New York, DuPont in D.C.) were built before all that crap. You'd never build a "modern city" like Philadelphia, with its narrow one-way streets, lack of parking, and commercial and retail mish-mashed together. But most of the rest of the country feels dead in comparison.

Make that the world.

At least in Stockholm all the most desirable locations would be illegal to build today for dozens of reasons. Meanwhile, newly built areas range from awful to tolerable.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#23

Post by ffumarola »

maxsilver wrote: post #9

There's this assumption that are $15-$18 per square foot. I'm no expert here, but I think that number might be roughly double what cities actually pay, based on this document from the State of Michigan : https://www.michigan.gov/documents/Vol2-40UIP16SubDevCosts-Y... It's a decade old, but I'm seeing only $8/square foot cost, not $15+. Using the rest of the authors map + numbers, the majority of properties are now ac…

CPI from 2003 to 2016 would bring that $8 up to $10.35, FWIW. And then, as you mentioned, road quality may come in to play. As would labor costs and other factors.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#24

Post by BurningFrog »

x0x0 wrote: post #3
mfoy_ wrote: post #2

Interesting article, and great visuals. The Sankey Diagram of the budget was very nice and of course all the interactive maps bear mentioning. I think that anecdote about the "free" parking structure was really telling. The federal government swooped in and built a bunch of parking space then left the lesser governments squabbling over whose responsibility it wasn't. More importantly, I think the best solution is to…

I have to share one of my favorite anecdotes. CA colleges are, for a number of reasons (prop 13, etc), in perpetual budget crises. A mother with a daughter in a UC was interviewed on tv whining about the impact of budget cuts on her daughter's education. After about a minute of this moron whinging, the reporter asked if she would be willing to pay a couple hundred dollars per year more in tax if it were dedicated to…

This argument rests on the assumption that taxes are spent wisely and fairly.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#25

Post by x0x0 »

rbritton wrote: post #15
mfoy_ wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised at all that people would hold such contradictory views, simultaneously demanding tax cuts and service improvements, but it is surprising that someone could utter them in the same breath and keep a straight face. Maybe it's just a lack of self awareness?

For some I'm sure it is, but I believe there's another facet to it: waste. A lot of tax revenue is totally wasted, and while some is almost certainly inevitable in an organization as large as the government, I strongly feel that no taxes should be raised or imposed until all reasonable avenues of reducing that have been pursued. For example, this should not be a thing: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08333.pdf

By setting up conditions that will never be met, you're insisting that taxes never be raised. Which is fine, but just honestly advocate for that. Also, that pdf is singularly stupid. Look at the first page: they found waste of $77k in the DoD! In a budget approaching one TRILLION dollars. There's always going to be a couple percent of waste; that's life in any big organization, public or private. Even if their 50% waste is accurate -- hell, even if it's 100% waste -- they're discussing $15B in a $3T federal budget -- half a percent.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#26

Post by MisterBastahrd »

mfoy_ wrote: post #4
x0x0 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to share one of my favorite anecdotes. CA colleges are, for a number of reasons (prop 13, etc), in perpetual budget crises. A mother with a daughter in a UC was interviewed on tv whining about the impact of budget cuts on her daughter's education. After about a minute of this moron whinging, the reporter asked if she would be willing to pay a couple hundred dollars per year more in tax if it were dedicated to…

I'm not surprised at all that people would hold such contradictory views, simultaneously demanding tax cuts and service improvements, but it is surprising that someone could utter them in the same breath and keep a straight face. Maybe it's just a lack of self awareness?

Most of them want nothing to do with actually understanding how their government works or how their money is spent, because they've been conditioned from a young age to believe that the government can't do anything right and anyone who works or receives benefits from the government is lazy and entitled. Some will even do the song and dance of telling everyone who will listen how private industry could do so much better, even though the average business in this country ends up being insolvent within a few years of beginning.

Their taxes will never be low enough because the service they receive will never meet their completely unrealistic standards.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#27

Post by ItsDeathball »

bagels wrote: post #14

I don't know why the author only does an analysis of just property taxes contributing to road maintenance. Most people in the US are contributing additional taxes in the form of: * Gasoline taxes * State and local sales taxes * State and federal income taxes Those taxes are available to build and maintain infrastructure as well. Whether they are [used for that purpose] or not is a different question. I know that I am…

It's mentioned in the article that this is about local, city-maintained streets. Unless you live directly on a state or federal highway, those gas taxes, state sales taxes, and income taxes do not go towards the street you live one.

Local sales taxes may, and the author includes these in the diagram of the city budget. Your largest contribution to the maintenance of city infrastructure is in property taxes, either directly or through rent. It's also worth noting that the article only accounts for road surface maintenance. Adding in sewage and water expenses would likely not be favorable.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#30

Post by maxerickson »

ItsDeathball wrote: post #27
bagels wrote: post #14

I don't know why the author only does an analysis of just property taxes contributing to road maintenance. Most people in the US are contributing additional taxes in the form of: * Gasoline taxes * State and local sales taxes * State and federal income taxes Those taxes are available to build and maintain infrastructure as well. Whether they are [used for that purpose] or not is a different question. I know that I am…

It's mentioned in the article that this is about local, city-maintained streets. Unless you live directly on a state or federal highway, those gas taxes, state sales taxes, and income taxes do not go towards the street you live one. Local sales taxes may, and the author includes these in the diagram of the city budget. Your largest contribution to the maintenance of city infrastructure is in property taxes, either di…

A Google search for "federal street construction grant" indicates otherwise. There's lots of results discussing such grants.
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