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H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

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Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/us/lawsuit-claims-disney-c... Disney laid off their Disneyland I.T. staff and forced them to train immigrants beforehand. Stories like this is what unnerves so many people and causes the backlash. Ignore it at your peril. Before this I would have agreed with you. After...

A company ought to be able to choose who they employ. What makes Americans more deserving of an I.T. job than a team in India? You're not thinking like a global citizen.

"You're not thinking like a global citizen."

No. Because I'm not a global citizen. I'm a citizen of the US. And it is much more in my interest that my countrymen have good jobs, than someone halfway around the world.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#142
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a trivial fix to the whole system: free the employees. As long as employees are completely tied to their employer wages will be lower. What else do you expect? Forcing employers to pay a higher salary is a half-measure. I imagine they'd still prefer H1B's over locals for one simple reasons: you hire a H1B employee and they're gonna stick around for a few years. Even if the job sucks. It's worth to pay a bit m…

> you hire a H1B employee and they're gonna stick around for a few years. Even if the job sucks. Can you elaborate a bit more on this? H1b's are free to change jobs. There is nothing that prevents them from doing so.

They are "free" to change jobs in the way that one is "free" to disparage a judge during their trial. The fact that there are many, many hurdles to doing this, not the least is finding a company that is willing to pick up sponsorship of that visa, makes that "free", not really free.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#143
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People exaggerate this in both directions. Some people do say, inaccurately, that H1B holders are unable to change jobs. Others say that nothing prevents them from doing so. Both are inaccurate, though the also both contain some truth. H1B holders have some limited job mobility. They typically must find a new corporate sponsor, and if they are also being sponsored for a green card, they will typically need to ensure…

Thanks for listing it out. It's a shame that people in this dilemma tend towards hyperbole, even going to the extent of calling it slavery. There are hurdles no doubt, but life is unfair. Deal with it.

"Deal with it" is perhaps the worst possible thing to say in any situation.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#144
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the Visa you are referring to is the O-1 Visa, it is much more difficult and expensive to obtain, but it is not subject to Visa CAP (I know it well, I'm on O-1). H-1B is for specialty worker, and they are not defined by exceptionality but by the fact that they possess a qualification for a specific job, there's a shortage of US Citizen for that job, and they receive market rate salary. We could agree that the beh…

>there's a shortage of US Citizen for that job, and they receive market rate salary That's not quite right. If you can't hire somebody at salary $X, then $X is not the market rate for someone in that position. The language I've heard is "prevailing wage", which can be less than the "market rate" if workers aren't making full use of their bargaining power.

This doesn't make sense to me, CS skills aren't a big fungible set that allow people to move around freely. I have a particular set of skills that I've honed over several years. These skills make me valuable at my specific job, but completely unemployable as a databases person, or an SRE, or a distributed systems specialist. It doesn't matter how much money they offer, they can't hire me because I don't have the skills. It's perfectly possible for subsets of the market to grow demand faster than the population responds by training for these skills (say by new targeted degree programs in school).

You're left with the choice of offering other native employees a pay bump to do something they don't have the skills for or want to do, or bring in foreign talent that is trained and interested, this is not a hard call at all. The problem is that "STEM" is a ridiculously broad classification to try and capture this need, clearly not all science/tech jobs are spiking in demand. At the same time, it's probably a bad idea to have the government specify sub-quotas within, say, software engineering. Government intervention like this, letting bureaucrats make arbitrary decisions on things they don't have expertise about is how you get bad rules.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#145
post #139

I can't believe in this day and age that anyone is arguing H1Bs aren't a means to get access to cheap labor. If you've ever worked with any sort of international company, you'll get connected to their "IT Team" which usually has some tech sound name like cognizant etc. They are super heavily accented, very eager to please, often poorly skilled and are paid far less than any native born person. If you deny this exists…

> I can't believe in this day and age that anyone is arguing H1Bs aren't a means to get access to cheap labor. ...If you deny this exists, you don't work in the tech sector. Believe me. I work in the tech sector and I find H-1Bs cost us a lot more, and always have (~25 years of reluctantly hiring H-1B folks from time to time). There's a ton of paperwork that takes time and costs money and it delays hiring the person.…

The way you are intending to use H1Bs is appropriate and fine. The way it is actually used is very different. It's mostly used by large spaghetti code factories that over promise and under deliver, pocketing the difference. I am not proud that my country imports foreign workers and works them to death, nor is it okay that they are taking jobs actual Americans can do.

If a system has a good basic idea but is flawed in practice, we should abolish it, no? At the moment, no one is properly served by the H1B lottery except these outsourcing firms.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#146
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for listing it out. It's a shame that people in this dilemma tend towards hyperbole, even going to the extent of calling it slavery. There are hurdles no doubt, but life is unfair. Deal with it.

On a personal level, it is very important to deal with the unfairness in live, because as you've pointed out, unfairness is inevitable. However, "life isn't fair" isn't a good mantra for forming public policy, either. One way to deal with unfairness is to fight against it rather than just accepting it.

Sure, but what fight are we talking about? We can't vote and we have zero influence.

The general sentiment on immigration is negative and has been negative since the recession of 2008. The US Congress can't even pass a budget, good luck in passing immigration reform. Sometimes it's important to accept ground realities and making the best of what you have, rather than having an idealistic pipe dream.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#147
If this is the list then I would say DoJ is not doing a good job. The level of H1B corruption in USA is lot more than the level of corruption in Government offices in India. Here are some malpractices I have observed in consultancies:

1. Employers takes money from an individual to file H1B. Charges are typically $4k. 2. Employer runs a fake payroll pays peanuts to the employee while showing a bug salary on paper. 3. Consultancy creates fake resume of its employees and the real work is then done by someone sitting in India. For example Consultancy hires Ms. X on H1B with no work experience. Ms X then works as consultant for an large E-Commerce giant through this consultancy through a fake resume that shows that she has 7 years of experience. Ms X cant code so she calls up a India office of the consultancy who do all the work sometimes even by screen sharing. 4. Hiring managers of large companies are bribed to discriminate against normal Americans and hire these H1Bs through consultancies. 5. Ms x working for consultancy X gets a call from a large company in bay area for interview. Ms Y goes and answers and clears the interview but Ms X joins as employee. In fact answering interview for others is what Ms Y does full time. 6. For telephonic interview many of these consultancies have setup complex systems where Ms Y answers the interiview on Skype but she has a teleprompter in front of her.

Fake H1B:

A lot of these consultancies employ people on H4,F1 or any other visa by telling their customers that these people have H1B. I suspect the large giant companies in bay area already know all this but it works on either don't as or don't tell basis or the hiring managers are bribed.

What I find most upsetting is that the media, overall tech industry does not discuss this at all.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#148

A lot of consultancy firms abuse this system, BUT: not all H1Bs are "cheap labor". If you are not American and want to work in a tech company in the US, you don't have much choice: 99% of the time, you have to get an H-1B. I once got a position in a very interesting startup in Palo Alto (with a salary significantly above average in the region), and the company was thrilled to have me join them (because there really i…

Former H-B myself. I was actually the most expensive member on the team. All 3 devs had the same base salary and bonus structure but they had to cover immigration lawyer fees for me on top of everything else.

In general, Americans' view on immigration is extremely skewed. Most people I've spoken to are surprised I'm not a citizen and are even more baffled to learn how little sympathy I have for illegal immigrants, since to them, all immigrants are "illegal", there must be no other way to get into this country!

Few know what a Green Card is, or what an H1B is, or what other pathways there are for living here - they just assume that I must already be American, since all immigrants are poor abused people from south of the border, and I don't look the part.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#149
I see a lot of general anger against H-1B visas, so hear me out. There are broadly two kinds of Indians who work in the US legally (I will come to the illegal part later) under H-1B visas.

[1] The first is typically graduates from elite Indian engineering institutions (Indian Institutes of Technology, or a few other institutes) who have either gotten a job offer from a US firm for their US office straight out of college, or have come to the US for graduate school and are now entering the workforce. These are, in an overwhelming majority of cases, NOT cheap labour. They are hired at market rate (sometimes even higher, because they typically have strong profiles), they compete with the rest of the student and larger labour pool and get these jobs based purely on merit. For reference, I have plenty of friends who are in this category (I am too), and all of us get paid competitive market salaries. We are also not beholden to any firm and are pretty free to switch jobs if we desire. A lot of us have paid for graduate school in the US too, so it's not like we are just somehow freeriding. This is the kind of crowd you typically encouter in the Bay Area.

[2] The second category typically consists of people who don't have a stellar educational background, and are mostly hired in India by companies like Infosys, TCS, Wipro et al. for typically very low salaries (say 1/4th or 1/3rd of what a Googler would get in India). They mostly work on outsourced projects that come from other companies (both in India and outside). Often, these workers are then transfered to the US, where they work as vendors for companies such as Microsoft. They are technically employees of TCS or Wipro or whatever (which have branches in the US), and are on the payroll of these companies, but work for companies like Microsoft. This pool of workers is indeed cheap labor for the big cos because they can a) skimp on stuff such as insurance costs b) typically have to pay less anyway c) the low salary is still pretty high compared to what the worker would have otherwise been able to command in India, d) the worker has relatively lower job mobility because their resumes are probably not as 'employable' as Category [1]

Like it or not, [2] far outnumbers [1]. I don't remember the link right now, but these companies apply for in the order of 1000 H-1B visas every year. Most startups etc, for example, apply for a few or in the order of tens at best.

The illegal bit is of course what a few other commenters wrote—there are these 'consulting firms' which will apply for H-1B on your behalf (you pay them $5K or whatever). If you get through the lottery, you can now move to the US on H-1B. You don't have an actual job though you are on the consulting firm's payroll. You then transfer money to them under the table, which they pay back to you as 'salary' because you are on their payroll after all. In the meanwhile, they try to find a job for you. If they can find a job you will then work wherever they set you up and they take a cut of your salary. This is typically done by people who want to accompany their spouses to the US but don't want to be on H-4 visas which don't let you work.

Re: H-1B Willful Violator List of Employers

#150

A lot of consultancy firms abuse this system, BUT: not all H1Bs are "cheap labor". If you are not American and want to work in a tech company in the US, you don't have much choice: 99% of the time, you have to get an H-1B. I once got a position in a very interesting startup in Palo Alto (with a salary significantly above average in the region), and the company was thrilled to have me join them (because there really i…

> It's a lottery, the most stupid way to pick who gets to enter you country. Instead of a random lottery, rank the applications by salary (decreasing order) and take the top N. Everyone wins: company has to pay more, it ensures that the visas go to really hard-to-fill jobs, and workers get more.

Someone in texas would definitely lose out because their salary will be much much lower than the bay area.

This doesn't factor in cost of living.

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