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NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

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Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#11

Post by kmuzykov »

Recently I've researched all NoSQL databases(grpaph oriented to be precise). We're building a project which I think fits best in NoSQL solution. And I did not find any suitable solution. Either it doesn't a have client api(we're using .NET) other then REST or plain TCP/IP (and of course I don't have time to create my own API) Either this is just some project more like a school homework.

Do you seriously believe that you can rely your business solution which will run across dozen of PCs on someones experiment?

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#12

Post by kmuzykov »

kmuzykov wrote: post #11

Recently I've researched all NoSQL databases(grpaph oriented to be precise). We're building a project which I think fits best in NoSQL solution. And I did not find any suitable solution. Either it doesn't a have client api(we're using .NET) other then REST or plain TCP/IP (and of course I don't have time to create my own API) Either this is just some project more like a school homework. Do you seriously believe that…

Another problem is deployment, if I adopt some RDBMS system to my needs, then I already have a bunch of web hostings supporting this type of DB or I can use installer to deploy the DB, run a few scripts and everything is ready to run.

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#13

Post by bphogan »

kmuzykov wrote: post #11

Recently I've researched all NoSQL databases(grpaph oriented to be precise). We're building a project which I think fits best in NoSQL solution. And I did not find any suitable solution. Either it doesn't a have client api(we're using .NET) other then REST or plain TCP/IP (and of course I don't have time to create my own API) Either this is just some project more like a school homework. Do you seriously believe that…

I don't understand the problem with the client apis. If you're working with .net, you should have access to an xmlhttprequest library. Building and reading xml to talk to a REST api shouldn't require a specific API library. Unless of course you're just looking to avoid that step altogether and would rather just point, click, drag, and drop and get on with it.

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#14

Post by bphogan »

kmuzykov wrote: post #12
kmuzykov wrote: post #11

Recently I've researched all NoSQL databases(grpaph oriented to be precise). We're building a project which I think fits best in NoSQL solution. And I did not find any suitable solution. Either it doesn't a have client api(we're using .NET) other then REST or plain TCP/IP (and of course I don't have time to create my own API) Either this is just some project more like a school homework. Do you seriously believe that…

Another problem is deployment, if I adopt some RDBMS system to my needs, then I already have a bunch of web hostings supporting this type of DB or I can use installer to deploy the DB, run a few scripts and everything is ready to run.

Deployment isn't the issue with these - deployment can be automated just as easily as an RDBMS. Sometimes easier. It's trivial to throw up several instances of MongoDB for example. As for hosting solutions that support this stuff, well, I prefer VPSs that I control to shared hosting with Mysql for anything that's serious.

But you and I appear to have very different needs.

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#15

Post by bphogan »

dasil003 wrote: post #5

NoSQL is designed to address a certain problem space and RDBMS is designed to address another. I don't see it that way at all. It's more like RDBMS is the all-purpose data store that attempts to distill the maximum number conceivable data storage, integrity constraints and lookup requirements into a set of powerful primitives. And NoSQL is a large group of technologies that are each optimized for specific cases which…

I agree with this, but I'd add that we developers tend to make an RDBMS do everything because it's what they're familiar with. NoSQL is an alternative to solve a specific problem, but you can't see that problem if you're ignorant of it.

It's like my experience with SVN vs Git. I didn't know how useful and more efficient my workflow would be if I used branches, so I never saw why Git was useful. Sure I could branch in SVN, but it was way more work. I got involved in a project where I had to use git, and I learned how branching works, and now I use it all the time because I understand where it's applicable.

I don't think you have to choose MySQL over MongoDB. I think you could be very happy using both, each for its purpose. You don't always know why you need something until you need it. It's always good to keep an eye on what others are doing.

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#16

Post by nostrademons »

pw0ncakes wrote: post #3

I'm going to declare something else the worst holy war ever. Then we can have an even worse holy war than ever was before, making ourselves both wrong.

I think the Crusades were the worst holy war ever.

There. Problem solved. Unless you wanna kill a few hundred thousand people and go to war for a few hundred years.

(If I'd said "The holocaust", I could've Godwinned this thread, but that wasn't really a holy war.)

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#17

Post by kmuzykov »

bphogan wrote: post #14
kmuzykov wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another problem is deployment, if I adopt some RDBMS system to my needs, then I already have a bunch of web hostings supporting this type of DB or I can use installer to deploy the DB, run a few scripts and everything is ready to run.

Deployment isn't the issue with these - deployment can be automated just as easily as an RDBMS. Sometimes easier. It's trivial to throw up several instances of MongoDB for example. As for hosting solutions that support this stuff, well, I prefer VPSs that I control to shared hosting with Mysql for anything that's serious. But you and I appear to have very different needs.

I prefer VPSs too, but if you aim wider auditory you should at least try to support web hosting. With RDBMS it is easy. And with NoSQL it is almost impossible. Maybe this is just a matter of time, when NoSQL will be as much widely used as MS SQL for example, then maybe you will be able to use MongoDB in a web hosting.

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#18

Post by simonw »

kmuzykov wrote: post #11

Recently I've researched all NoSQL databases(grpaph oriented to be precise). We're building a project which I think fits best in NoSQL solution. And I did not find any suitable solution. Either it doesn't a have client api(we're using .NET) other then REST or plain TCP/IP (and of course I don't have time to create my own API) Either this is just some project more like a school homework. Do you seriously believe that…

I actually think this says something interesting about .NET v.s. open source platforms. The new batch of NoSQL products are being developed almost exclusively in the open source world - they're written to run on *nix (Windows support, if it exists at all, is generally an after thought) and the client libraries that ship with them target the open source languages first. In this particular case, it feels like closed-source platforms are second class citizens.

I'll hazard a guess that one reason for this is that NoSQL systems are mainly designed for scalability, and free operating systems are significantly cheaper to scale than platforms with a license fee per node.

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#19

Post by kmuzykov »

bphogan wrote: post #13
kmuzykov wrote: post #11

Recently I've researched all NoSQL databases(grpaph oriented to be precise). We're building a project which I think fits best in NoSQL solution. And I did not find any suitable solution. Either it doesn't a have client api(we're using .NET) other then REST or plain TCP/IP (and of course I don't have time to create my own API) Either this is just some project more like a school homework. Do you seriously believe that…

I don't understand the problem with the client apis. If you're working with .net, you should have access to an xmlhttprequest library. Building and reading xml to talk to a REST api shouldn't require a specific API library. Unless of course you're just looking to avoid that step altogether and would rather just point, click, drag, and drop and get on with it.

REST is too heavy for my needs. It generates a lot of traffic.

Re: NoSQL v. SQL is the worst holy war ever.

#20

Post by kmuzykov »

simonw wrote: post #18
kmuzykov wrote: post #11

Recently I've researched all NoSQL databases(grpaph oriented to be precise). We're building a project which I think fits best in NoSQL solution. And I did not find any suitable solution. Either it doesn't a have client api(we're using .NET) other then REST or plain TCP/IP (and of course I don't have time to create my own API) Either this is just some project more like a school homework. Do you seriously believe that…

I actually think this says something interesting about .NET v.s. open source platforms. The new batch of NoSQL products are being developed almost exclusively in the open source world - they're written to run on *nix (Windows support, if it exists at all, is generally an after thought) and the client libraries that ship with them target the open source languages first. In this particular case, it feels like closed-so…

Then this new holy war boils down to an good old *nix vs windows holy war, or open-source vs closed applications.
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