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We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

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Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If scientists weren't so arrogant, they might realize that if we're spending years studying something it might be a bit more complex than a shovel. If some programmers weren't so arrogant, they might realize that terrible code that doesn't follow any best practices and is completely unmaintainable solves a lot of day-to-day problems in many many fields/businesses. The beauty of programming and the spread of knowled…

I think you're getting angry about something I never said. I'm well aware that terrible code solves many problems out there. Yes, it's great that people are able to use code to solve problems without being experts. It's also true that their code could be even better if they learned a bit more. Just because people can do the basic level of something (it's great that they can!) doesn't mean the field is easy or useless…

> Just because people can do the basic level of something [...] doesn't mean the field is easy or useless.

Actually, the shovel analogy is quite accurate after tweaking a little.

"Just because people can do the basic level of digging holes in ground doesn't mean the field is easy or useless".

Operating an overgrown shovel called "excavator" is not an easy task and requires plenty of training to do it well, yet it's but a tool. And we would still need all the knowledge from civil engineering (totally separate field, though "engineering", not "science") to make any substantially larger or deeper hole in the ground.

All this doesn't make digging holes useful on its own.

It helps to sometimes look from this angle at programming and computer science.

Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#92
post #22

On a tangential note. I've spoken to a few hiring managers who have expressed disappointment with some of the hires that they have made straight out of bootcamps (w/o prior CS knowledge or fundamentals). Specifically, the bootcamp graduate are smart, motivated, and know their specific toolsets well. However, they tend to struggle a bit if you place them outside their comfort zone. Is this a sentiment that others have…

I've heard the same thing about college graduates with minimal or no experience (no internships, for example).

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Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hey, i turn 32 today. i'm also feeling dissatisfied with being a programmer. i don't think it's a phase though. honestly, i can't remember a time that i've been satisfied with my situation.

Why do you think that is? Have you spent much time thinking about what would make you happy?

oh, constantly. but it's always changing, is the problem. actually, i've come to the opinion that that isn't really a problem. imagine an artist who's never satisfied with their work, either because it isn't good enough for them or because they're ready to move on to something completely different. that's not really a bad thing in and of itself. it's only in how they respond to that innate restlessness -- the engine that drives their work -- that could cause problems.

Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#94
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be surprised as to how many people do not read the official documentation for the tools they use. They'll spend time on Google or Stack Overflow rather than a minute in the official docs—even when they're great (e.g. Rails guides).

Well, in their defense, most documentation is terrible. You get used to being able to find something in two Google searches that you couldn't find in five minutes looking through the docs.

True. It's something we have to improve.

Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#96
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be surprised as to how many people do not read the official documentation for the tools they use. They'll spend time on Google or Stack Overflow rather than a minute in the official docs—even when they're great (e.g. Rails guides).

Well, in their defense, most documentation is terrible. You get used to being able to find something in two Google searches that you couldn't find in five minutes looking through the docs.

I suppose it depends on what languages you use. The docs for C++, Java, PHP, and the man pages for C have all been very useful to me.

Python is terrible.

Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

33 y.o. Dad of 3, and a far better engineer since having kids. Since becoming a Dad, I learnt the value of time, I learnt how to get stuff finished when I have a chance to, I learnt empathy and tolerance, I learnt to look at the big picture. I forgot about many of the frustrations and angst that I felt before I had kids. I simply don't have time to worry about my own feelings much, but at the same time I learnt to lo…

Since having kids, I've become better at dealing with managers. ;-)

Being a parent is full time management training.
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