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Who Invented Homework?

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Re: Who Invented Homework?

#41

Post by lucb1e »

hdctambien wrote: post #28

Math isn't the only class that gives homework. Should Spanish class-time be spent memorizing vocabulary and conjugations, or practicing communicating in the language? Should History class-time be spent reading from the book so you know what happened, or discussing those topics and their implications? Should English class-time be spent doing silent reading, or talking about the books/authors/time periods that you read…

It doesn't need to be class time. The issue is that "home work" invades our private lives (evenings, weekends and holidays) due to its very definition.

If I work from home for a company, it's not called homework because it is under the same conditions as normal work: there are set hours, I receive compensation, the only difference is that it's not on-site.

So should Spanish class time be spent memorizing vocabulary? No, at least not in large parts, but neither should it take more than the time allocated for the subject[1]. It's nice that we can choose to do it either in school or at home, but the way it presently works, homework takes up more time than it should.

[1] Again, I don't mean allocated class hours, I mean the total number of hours students are expected to work on something. In Dutch terms, SBUs, or "hours the course takes from your life, class and homework and everything together". All courses should have SBUs that add up to 40 hours per week, give or take 5.

Re: Who Invented Homework?

#42

Post by coldpie »

nibs wrote: post #30

As an unschooler who went to school and did "homework" or any kind of "schoolwork" for the first time when I was 12, it took me about a month to catch up to my peers in terms of abilities to do the coursework, and about a year to catch up to my peers in resentment and disengagement. Except I got to spend seven years hanging out with my brothers doing fun stuff and my friends had to spend it training to be slaves. The…

> my friends had to spend it training to be slaves

Oh, get over yourself.

Re: Who Invented Homework?

#43

Post by guard-of-terra »

hmottestad wrote: post #33
nibs wrote: post #30

As an unschooler who went to school and did "homework" or any kind of "schoolwork" for the first time when I was 12, it took me about a month to catch up to my peers in terms of abilities to do the coursework, and about a year to catch up to my peers in resentment and disengagement. Except I got to spend seven years hanging out with my brothers doing fun stuff and my friends had to spend it training to be slaves. The…

"It is not productive, does not produce smarter or more learned people." I would like to disagree, but I don't have anything to back up my claim that mass schooling makes people smarter or more learned. Like you, I just have anecdotes. But one thing is for sure. I would never have gotten to where I am today. If I hadn't learned english at school. Having lived in two countries, neither of which had english as a native…

"I would unlikely have learned english unless it had been taught at school"

You could as well play a lot of video games in English and dabbling in programming. That's how I learned.

Everybody who relied on school for learning English - still barely understand it.

Re: Who Invented Homework?

#44

Post by nibs »

hmottestad wrote: post #33
nibs wrote: post #30

As an unschooler who went to school and did "homework" or any kind of "schoolwork" for the first time when I was 12, it took me about a month to catch up to my peers in terms of abilities to do the coursework, and about a year to catch up to my peers in resentment and disengagement. Except I got to spend seven years hanging out with my brothers doing fun stuff and my friends had to spend it training to be slaves. The…

"It is not productive, does not produce smarter or more learned people." I would like to disagree, but I don't have anything to back up my claim that mass schooling makes people smarter or more learned. Like you, I just have anecdotes. But one thing is for sure. I would never have gotten to where I am today. If I hadn't learned english at school. Having lived in two countries, neither of which had english as a native…

That is an interesting point. I only learned to read when I was 11 (never had any need to, before that) which is strangely late. When I went to school at 12, I found I was the fastest reader, and tested as "University +" reading level, which is the highest there was.

By learning independently of school, I learned way later in life, and learned in a way that was right for my stage of development.

My anecdote about it not being productive is purely subjective, but the science on development theory is clear. If left to their own devices, almost all people learn native language, writing and math on their own timeline in about 100 hours. School makes this process far less effcient, and teaches things like grammer that program the brain to read slowly and without depth.

Obviously my anecdote is hyperbolic, I speak primarily as someone who had a great unschooling experience and then went to school and saw the difference, and a little bit as someone who has read extensive child development theory.

Re: Who Invented Homework?

#45

Post by nibs »

Jtsummers wrote: post #39
nibs wrote: post #30

As an unschooler who went to school and did "homework" or any kind of "schoolwork" for the first time when I was 12, it took me about a month to catch up to my peers in terms of abilities to do the coursework, and about a year to catch up to my peers in resentment and disengagement. Except I got to spend seven years hanging out with my brothers doing fun stuff and my friends had to spend it training to be slaves. The…

Thanks to the economic state of the US, most families can't afford the time to dedicate to their children to properly educate them in the breadth of subjects that schools (attempt to) cover. And this assumes that the parents are either educated or capable/willing to source proper materials to provide information (or the tools to access information) for their children.

Agreed. Which makes me sad. The funds do exist, but it all goes to public education. One cannot opt-out of school taxes, even when one opts out of school. It is not just an issue that is purely economic, the money exists, it just does not exist in the hands of the parents.

Re: Who Invented Homework?

#46

Post by nibs »

coldpie wrote: post #42
nibs wrote: post #30

As an unschooler who went to school and did "homework" or any kind of "schoolwork" for the first time when I was 12, it took me about a month to catch up to my peers in terms of abilities to do the coursework, and about a year to catch up to my peers in resentment and disengagement. Except I got to spend seven years hanging out with my brothers doing fun stuff and my friends had to spend it training to be slaves. The…

> my friends had to spend it training to be slaves Oh, get over yourself.

... where I am from, elementary school is basically obedience training for high testosterone boys. It is a battle of wills that the boy almost always loses. Eventually, they rebel hard. I upvoted you though because it was hyperbolic, this subject is just very passion-inducing for me.

Re: Who Invented Homework?

#48

Post by KON_Air »

bpchaps wrote: post #31
KON_Air wrote: post #4

I thought geeks an nerds enjoyed homework for the fact it is mental exercise if nothing else. Bazinga generation nerds and geeks get out of my cyber-lawn!

When I was failing classes for not doing homework, I was enjoying the company of other nerds from all over the world on IRC and learning to code by writing (awful) mIRC scripts instead. Pretty sure there's room for some middle ground in there. ;)

Mind you (and AndrewDucker) being occupied with something else which is more interesting to one is not the same thing as thinking it is torture.

Re: Who Invented Homework?

#49

Post by branchless »

lordnacho wrote: post #20

My feelings now are that there really shouldn't be any mandatory homework. - If you do it badly, you may as well not do it. Who else remembers flipping through "The Catcher in the Rye" so fast they don't actually remember any other character than Holden Caulfield? - It's an easy way for teachers to not teach, yet gives them an alibi. "Look I'm teaching, they have loads of books to read. Can't help it if they don't."…

So sick of my 7 year old getting math work and asking him what he did that day only to hear much of it was little more than coloring in.

They are leaving the hard stuff for homework.

Re: Who Invented Homework?

#50

Post by germinalphrase »

nibs wrote: post #45
Jtsummers wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks to the economic state of the US, most families can't afford the time to dedicate to their children to properly educate them in the breadth of subjects that schools (attempt to) cover. And this assumes that the parents are either educated or capable/willing to source proper materials to provide information (or the tools to access information) for their children.

Agreed. Which makes me sad. The funds do exist, but it all goes to public education. One cannot opt-out of school taxes, even when one opts out of school. It is not just an issue that is purely economic, the money exists, it just does not exist in the hands of the parents.

Possibly, but if the per pupil cost is between $6500-19800 (Utah and New York, respectively) would this amount of money free at least one parent to fully educate their children? If that were true, wouldn't it seem to follow that more people would do it?

Public education must be - or at least have the appearance of being - a good deal economically.

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