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We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

medium.freecodecamp.com

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Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#61
post #23

It's funny. I'm seeing this, while I'm thinking about dropping out of this career. I don't want to be one of those girl dropout stats, but lately I'm feeling a desire to start a family. fwiw I just passed 32 and I don't know if I want to do programming/software engineering jobs anymore. I'm hoping its just a phase.

Ironically, it's an ideal profession for staying home while raising kids :)

Caring for kids is a full time job. I used to think my wife had it easy until I tried it myself.

Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#62

I was surprised to see no mention of game development as what drew one into coding. Half the cats I've worked with got bit by the programming bug initially wanting to make games.

> Half the cats I've worked with

what does `cats` mean in this context? maybe a cultural thing.

Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#63
I Wish their data set wasn't so biased. 72% of respondents found freecodecamp helpful? Well that answers almost everything about who they're talking to!

Doesn't seem like a fair representation of people who are learning to code. There are 40,000 computer science graduates per year. So perhaps 160k to 200k CS majors at any given moment. Those people learning program doesn't seem to be represented at all in this survey.

Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#64

> Most of them are already applying for developer jobs, or will start applying within the next year. I think the possible answers for this question bias towards that conclusion. Out of the five options, four refer to a time frame between now and a year from now. Also, for the "Which learning resources have you found helpful?" I'm surprised that the official documentation for the language one is learning and "random t…

You'd be surprised as to how many people do not read the official documentation for the tools they use. They'll spend time on Google or Stack Overflow rather than a minute in the official docs—even when they're great (e.g. Rails guides).

Well, in their defense, most documentation is terrible. You get used to being able to find something in two Google searches that you couldn't find in five minutes looking through the docs.

Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#65
post #62

I was surprised to see no mention of game development as what drew one into coding. Half the cats I've worked with got bit by the programming bug initially wanting to make games.

> Half the cats I've worked with what does `cats` mean in this context? maybe a cultural thing.

Comes from jazz idiom. Cool people, basically.

Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#66
post #22

On a tangential note. I've spoken to a few hiring managers who have expressed disappointment with some of the hires that they have made straight out of bootcamps (w/o prior CS knowledge or fundamentals). Specifically, the bootcamp graduate are smart, motivated, and know their specific toolsets well. However, they tend to struggle a bit if you place them outside their comfort zone. Is this a sentiment that others have…

I believe it is, because as Elon Musk said, education is like a tree.

These people learn about the leafs of a tree (specific tools) but don't learn about the trunk and branches that hold them (fundamental CS educaton).

Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#67
post #23

It's funny. I'm seeing this, while I'm thinking about dropping out of this career. I don't want to be one of those girl dropout stats, but lately I'm feeling a desire to start a family. fwiw I just passed 32 and I don't know if I want to do programming/software engineering jobs anymore. I'm hoping its just a phase.

33 y.o. Dad of 3, and a far better engineer since having kids. Since becoming a Dad, I learnt the value of time, I learnt how to get stuff finished when I have a chance to, I learnt empathy and tolerance, I learnt to look at the big picture. I forgot about many of the frustrations and angst that I felt before I had kids. I simply don't have time to worry about my own feelings much, but at the same time I learnt to lo…

It really a things that all engineers worried. Sometimes, it is like you don’t have time for your family. The work is never going finished. You tried hard to give some time for your family but you can’t. This frustration and anger makes you uncomfortable. But you can’t even share your feeling with your family. You don’t want them to worry.

It is a life of every engineer. But it is always good to choose the options that better suits you.

Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#68
post #23

It's funny. I'm seeing this, while I'm thinking about dropping out of this career. I don't want to be one of those girl dropout stats, but lately I'm feeling a desire to start a family. fwiw I just passed 32 and I don't know if I want to do programming/software engineering jobs anymore. I'm hoping its just a phase.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this . That you feel any conflict at all about being a mother is a testament to how sick our society has become.

I have to agree.

My wife stopped working because she want's to be a full time mother (which is hard work by the way).

I also try to work at home as much as possible because kids grow up so fast it's easy to miss the first baby steps.

Yes we have less money to save and have to skip some things once in a while but it's worth it.

Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#69
post #38
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Front-end programming is very visual. You can immediately see/sense/feel what you have developed/program, so there is a expedited positive feedback loop. This can appeal to beginner programmers because it gives a immediate sense of satisfaction and accomplishment vs. backend programming where you see lines of output spit back to you in a terminal.

That's interesting, as I feel the opposite. I am a front end dev for a large eComm company, but do a lot of back end programming and scripting in my free time. The reason I love programming is problem solving. I have the most fun doing coding challenges, and get the most immediate sense of satisfaction and accomplishment when I write an algorithm that solves a test case. Although my day job is primarily "application…

I wonder how much of this is because they are simply new to the field. Front-end stuff is more immediate, and immediacy is appealing. Back-end stuff has you spending less time worrying about compatibility headaches and all the non-problem-solving rabbit trails, but if you haven't spent a lot of time programming, you might not realize this and just assume that the level of headaches doesn't vary much.

Re: We asked 15,000 people how they're learning to program

#70
post #23

It's funny. I'm seeing this, while I'm thinking about dropping out of this career. I don't want to be one of those girl dropout stats, but lately I'm feeling a desire to start a family. fwiw I just passed 32 and I don't know if I want to do programming/software engineering jobs anymore. I'm hoping its just a phase.

I had a little bit of a career, had a kid, and became a stay-at-home dad. After working from home for a bit, I ended up letting the career slide and ultimately end. Along the way I realized I didn't really care for it. Now I'm back in school in an unrelated field and realizing that coding can be an asset in the field. I'm working on a personal coding project as a way to get back into things. My physics prof believes…

> My physics prof believes that going to school for computer science is like going to school to learn all how a shovel works, while other majors (like physics) just learn how to use the shovel in order to accomplish their goals.

And this is how labs end up with terrible code that doesn't follow any best practices and is completely unmaintainable.

If scientists weren't so arrogant, they might realize that if we're spending years studying something it might be a bit more complex than a shovel.

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