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Our Brain Uses Statistics to Calculate Confidence, Make Decisions

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Re: Our Brain Uses Statistics to Calculate Confidence, Make Decisions

#41

> It is Kepecs' thesis that statistics - generated by the objective processing of sensory and other data - is the ultimate language of the brain. Every time I read stuff like this, I lose more confidence that the scientific method as currently applied, funded, and published is capable of truly conquering complex systems like the brain or nutrition. I read article after article like this one, where a prominent researc…

To quote wikipedia's article on statistics: Statistics is the study of the collection, analysis, interpretation, presentation, and organization of data.

Isn't that more or less what human brains do?

A neural network is just a curve fitting algorithm optimized to fit a bunch of data, that is, a statistical method. NNs are, to the best of my knowledge, a fairly good analogy for what the physical computation process of the brain.

NNs are also very easy to fool. Mislabel the humans in your robot training data as 'kill', and your network will make bad decisions. Garbage in, garbage out.

If you make a probabilistic model and attach a very high confidence to the things that spirits tell little girls down by the river, then sometimes your model will suggest some terrible ideas. Humans are also notoriously bad at sampling data, but that doesn't mean it isn't what they're doing.

Your edit raises a good question, though! I can't say I have a good answer, but would be interested to hear a good idea for such an experiment.

I want to use the phenomenon the inner monologue and the act of convincing oneself of something as a counter example, but on the other hand, language is very easily generated by statistical methods, and the brain apparently will make decisions and then come up with justifications afterward. http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2016/04/27/095679761664...

Re: Our Brain Uses Statistics to Calculate Confidence, Make Decisions

#43

> It is Kepecs' thesis that statistics - generated by the objective processing of sensory and other data - is the ultimate language of the brain. Every time I read stuff like this, I lose more confidence that the scientific method as currently applied, funded, and published is capable of truly conquering complex systems like the brain or nutrition. I read article after article like this one, where a prominent researc…

Ultimately to prove that statistics is not fundamentally the language of the brain, you'd need to find behaviors that are fundamentally incompatible with statistics.

Luckily the conjunction fallacy qualifies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunction_fallacy

Re: Our Brain Uses Statistics to Calculate Confidence, Make Decisions

#44
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, the time that the prophecy of a teenage girl convinced a tribe of people in present-day South Africa to kill 300,000 - 400,000 of their own cattle, leading to the starvation and death of 20,000 - 40,000 people. How does a brain built on statistics decide that this is the most rational course of action? That's actually a really good example of statistics deciding a course of action. Ask yourself this? W…

> What shocked me was how many of these kids created internal narratives that they somehow caused the storm, or the storm was manifested as a personal lesson for them. Exactly. I would argue that internal narratives like this are inherently anti-statistical. They attempt to give greater meaning to something than the direct observations support. What experiment would convince you that statistics is not "the ultimate l…

I'm not necessarily convinced statistics is the ultimate language of the brain. Like you, I imagine there are a number of legacy systems in the brain that coordinate in interesting ad-hoc ways.

What do you think I should read?

Re: Our Brain Uses Statistics to Calculate Confidence, Make Decisions

#46

> It is Kepecs' thesis that statistics - generated by the objective processing of sensory and other data - is the ultimate language of the brain. Every time I read stuff like this, I lose more confidence that the scientific method as currently applied, funded, and published is capable of truly conquering complex systems like the brain or nutrition. I read article after article like this one, where a prominent researc…

If I may riff on this rather unscientifically from my own anecdotal observations of how my own brain works:

I do not agree with TFAs assertion that "The feeling ultimately relies on the same statistical computations a computer would make".

I would agree, however, that one factor (of an undetermined number of factors) of decision making is something that roughly resembles statistical computation. The key difference is that our input data for these "computations" is absolute crap, and heavily influenced by any number of things, including confirmation bias, small sample size, selective memory, etc.

Let me draw an example of my many years and thousands of hours of play in a game that is dominated by statistics, pool (billiards):

Beginners at the game develop all sorts of incorrect assumptions about how likely a given shot is to succeed, informed by their insufficient sample size. "I made that shot three times in a row last night, why would I miss it this time?" This is, of course, the equivalent of "I hit 13 on the roulette wheel 3 times in a row last night, why would I miss it this time".

As you build experience, you start to get a more correct intuitive understanding of the actual statistical likelihood of a given shot going in, but it is still affected by selection bias, and a number of other factors.

The way (well, some) professional and semi-professional pool players have attempted to eliminate this bias is by actually taking notes on the types of shots they take and actually collecting the true statistics. Even then, after collecting this data for months/years, when confronted with a shot that, statistically, they are more likely to miss than to make, they will still assign an incorrect confidence level to their decision, particularly when they are in, say, the finals of a tournament with a big payday (adrenaline is bad for rational thought, though it can occasionally help you operate at the right edge of the bell curve of your "normal" ability, hence, poorly computed bias).

I don't think that we can boil the decision making process of the brain down to something as simple as a NN, or bayesian inference or whatever. I do, however, think that the brain does attempt a flawed statistical inference as one of many factors in making decisions.

(Note: i'm not anywhere near a professional pool player, nor will I ever be or desire to be, but I've brushed shoulders with some of the best in the world, so I believe I've got a modicum of observational authority on the matter. I also think it's a pretty good example of our brain trying and failing to properly infer the statistical likelihood of a given outcome; chance based gambling is another good one)

Re: Our Brain Uses Statistics to Calculate Confidence, Make Decisions

#47
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, the time that the prophecy of a teenage girl convinced a tribe of people in present-day South Africa to kill 300,000 - 400,000 of their own cattle, leading to the starvation and death of 20,000 - 40,000 people. How does a brain built on statistics decide that this is the most rational course of action? That's actually a really good example of statistics deciding a course of action. Ask yourself this? W…

> What shocked me was how many of these kids created internal narratives that they somehow caused the storm, or the storm was manifested as a personal lesson for them. Exactly. I would argue that internal narratives like this are inherently anti-statistical. They attempt to give greater meaning to something than the direct observations support. What experiment would convince you that statistics is not "the ultimate l…

> They attempt to give greater meaning to something than the direct observations support.

Why is this anti-statistical? Nobody said the statistical input had to be empirical.

Re: Our Brain Uses Statistics to Calculate Confidence, Make Decisions

#48
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What shocked me was how many of these kids created internal narratives that they somehow caused the storm, or the storm was manifested as a personal lesson for them. Exactly. I would argue that internal narratives like this are inherently anti-statistical. They attempt to give greater meaning to something than the direct observations support. What experiment would convince you that statistics is not "the ultimate l…

I'm not necessarily convinced statistics is the ultimate language of the brain. Like you, I imagine there are a number of legacy systems in the brain that coordinate in interesting ad-hoc ways. What do you think I should read?

> Like you, I imagine there are a number of legacy systems in the brain that coordinate in interesting ad-hoc ways.

I'm sorry if I have missed something obvious, but where does haberman claim such a belief? As far as I can see they are just questioning the application of the scientific method and the strength of conclusions that can be drawn from the results.

Re: Our Brain Uses Statistics to Calculate Confidence, Make Decisions

#49
post #41

> It is Kepecs' thesis that statistics - generated by the objective processing of sensory and other data - is the ultimate language of the brain. Every time I read stuff like this, I lose more confidence that the scientific method as currently applied, funded, and published is capable of truly conquering complex systems like the brain or nutrition. I read article after article like this one, where a prominent researc…

To quote wikipedia's article on statistics: Statistics is the study of the collection, analysis, interpretation, presentation, and organization of data. Isn't that more or less what human brains do? A neural network is just a curve fitting algorithm optimized to fit a bunch of data, that is, a statistical method. NNs are, to the best of my knowledge, a fairly good analogy for what the physical computation process of…

> Statistics is the study of the collection, analysis, interpretation, presentation, and organization of data. Isn't that more or less what human brains do?

I think you have expanded the meaning of statistics beyond what is understood in the article. The originally understood meaning is "numerically/theoretically justifiable inferences given a set of input data." Now you're taking it to mean "any data-processing pipeline."

By this large and more abstract definition, here are some more things that are based on statistics:

    - tabloid newspapers
    - religious sermons
    - sundials
    - televisions

Re: Our Brain Uses Statistics to Calculate Confidence, Make Decisions

#50

> It is Kepecs' thesis that statistics - generated by the objective processing of sensory and other data - is the ultimate language of the brain. Every time I read stuff like this, I lose more confidence that the scientific method as currently applied, funded, and published is capable of truly conquering complex systems like the brain or nutrition. I read article after article like this one, where a prominent researc…

You can't take any single act, where something goes wrong, and conclude that they obviously made the irrational choice.

Sometimes, you can make the correct decision and still have a bad outcome.

If someone offers you even money that they can roll double sixes on a pair of dice, the rational and logical decision is to take the bet. The rationality of the decision doesn't change if they happen to roll double sixes, it just means you got unlucky.

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