A Child Thinking About Infinity (2001) [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: A Child Thinking About Infinity (2001) [pdf]

#31

Post by vmilner » Wed, May 04, 2016, 7:54 PM UTC

branchless wrote: post #22

illumin8 wrote: post #20

Just a few days ago I had an interesting conversation with my 4 year old son that went something like this: "Daddy, what's the biggest number?" "There is no such thing as the biggest number; numbers keep getting bigger and bigger forever. This is a concept called infinity." "Which number is the biggest?" And so on; he's only 4, so I don't expect him to grasp the concept of infinity, but I was impressed that he's alre…

There's a great anecdote about this. Son: the biggest number is 1081 Dad: what about 1082 Son: well, I was close

Tony Benn (UK politician) relates his grandson doing this in his diaries, but I've heard it related many times and suspect it doesn't come from that single source.

Re: A Child Thinking About Infinity (2001) [pdf]

#32

Post by kyberias » Wed, May 04, 2016, 7:54 PM UTC

knicholes wrote: post #23

illumin8 wrote: post #20

Just a few days ago I had an interesting conversation with my 4 year old son that went something like this: "Daddy, what's the biggest number?" "There is no such thing as the biggest number; numbers keep getting bigger and bigger forever. This is a concept called infinity." "Which number is the biggest?" And so on; he's only 4, so I don't expect him to grasp the concept of infinity, but I was impressed that he's alre…

I'm not sure if this is normal or expected, but my two-year-old can count to 20. I'm not trying to brag-- maybe just seeing if maybe I should start bragging? ;)

It's not particularly exceptional. Yet, some kids don't start talking until they're 2+. That's normal too.

Re: A Child Thinking About Infinity (2001) [pdf]

#33

Post by oaktowner » Wed, May 04, 2016, 8:13 PM UTC

I'm not sure my son was even 6 yet (he may have been five) when he learned about subtraction. We started by talking about things: to illustrate 4 minus 2, you start with four marbles and remove 2 of them, leaving 2. For a couple of weeks he would ask me to subtract numbers, then he moved on to asking me to ask him numbers (and writing down simply arithmetic problems to solve).

Then, one day, out of the blue, he asked with a look of incredulity in his eye: "Daddy. What is one minus TWO???"

He clearly realized that he had come up with a question which had no representation in the marble-based construct.

I was so proud.

I sat down with him and drew a number line...and then showed him how we could extend the number line to the other side of zero.

He does know about infinity now (he's 7) -- and his most recent revelation that there is no such thing as an infinite number of any physical object. Even germs. Even atoms -- no matter how tiny, an infinite number of them can't exist in the universe (which he certainly pictures as finite).

Re: A Child Thinking About Infinity (2001) [pdf]

#34

Post by OJFord » Wed, May 04, 2016, 9:43 PM UTC

Amusing typesetting error:

    > We also discussed powers of ten, so that he knew that 
    > 102 was 100, 103 is 1000, and 10100 is a 1 followed by a
    > hundred noughts.

Re: A Child Thinking About Infinity (2001) [pdf]

#35

Post by mswen » Wed, May 04, 2016, 9:49 PM UTC

So this resonates with me. In general I don't have a particularly detailed memory of my early childhood. However, I do recall one day when I was 4 years old sitting at the end of the driveway waiting for my dad to get home from work.

I had picked up 2 digit counting from my listening to my mom work with my older sister. As I am sitting there by myself counting and then I got to 99. At that moment something partly clicked and I realized that 3 digits let me continue counting and I could just carry on the pattern. I remember being pretty excited at this and counted for awhile longer ... maybe another 20 or 30 digits and then in a flash I realized that the same thing works when I run out of 3 digits and I intuited the fact that there is really no end to counting. And, even though I didn't have a name for it I remember being kind of awestruck at something that could just go on and on without end.

It makes me smile today at 54 to be reminded of that rush of discovery.

Re: A Child Thinking About Infinity (2001) [pdf]

#36

Post by jeena » Wed, May 04, 2016, 10:16 PM UTC

I was born in communist Poland and back then everybody was catholic there, and so was I. So everyone had to go to the church, so I did too. I listened what the preast had to say about the heaven and the hell, but particularly that he said one would end up there for eternety.

That sunday lying in my bed I couldn't sleep. I was thinking about this infinity thing. I thought to my self, going to hell is bad because you get tortured and stuff, but going to heaven for eternity isn't really much better either, because it never ends! This was so frightening to me I couldn't sleep.

I was ok with going to hell for some really long amount of time, say 10k years, as long as I knew it would end some day. But being in heaven for ever? I still get a bad feeling when I remember my thoughts from back then, that would be unbearable, you couldn't even commit suicide, nothing would change anything, you'd be trapped forever with no hope of escape.

That was when I was seven or something, when I was eleven we moved to Germany where not everybody was catholic, half of the people were protestants. Then later when I was 27, so 10 years ago, I moved to Sweden where most people are atheists, and with time I also liberated myself from this scary religion.

Now I feel really happy about the fact that there most probably is no god and thus no inifinite amount of time in heaven either.

Re: A Child Thinking About Infinity (2001) [pdf]

#37

Post by irrational » Wed, May 04, 2016, 10:29 PM UTC

jeena wrote: post #36

I was born in communist Poland and back then everybody was catholic there, and so was I. So everyone had to go to the church, so I did too. I listened what the preast had to say about the heaven and the hell, but particularly that he said one would end up there for eternety. That sunday lying in my bed I couldn't sleep. I was thinking about this infinity thing. I thought to my self, going to hell is bad because you g…

By the conservation of matter, matter cannot be created or destroyed. Thus in a certain sense you were not created but have always existed to infinity in the past (as far as we know the singularity which came before the big bang had no beginning). So is it a strange thing to think of yourself as continuing to exist in some form to infinity in the future?

Re: A Child Thinking About Infinity (2001) [pdf]

#38

Post by irrational » Wed, May 04, 2016, 10:35 PM UTC

knicholes wrote: post #23

illumin8 wrote: post #20

Just a few days ago I had an interesting conversation with my 4 year old son that went something like this: "Daddy, what's the biggest number?" "There is no such thing as the biggest number; numbers keep getting bigger and bigger forever. This is a concept called infinity." "Which number is the biggest?" And so on; he's only 4, so I don't expect him to grasp the concept of infinity, but I was impressed that he's alre…

I'm not sure if this is normal or expected, but my two-year-old can count to 20. I'm not trying to brag-- maybe just seeing if maybe I should start bragging? ;)

Not really. We lived in an apartment from the time our youngest daughter was born until she was 2 or so. There was no elevator so we would count the stairs when we went up. I don't recall how many stairs there were, but she could count higher than 20 because of that. Of course she was a bit precocious. We were at university at the time and the only people she interacted with were other university students (no other kids around). By the time she was 2 she was fully fluent and could carry on lengthy conversation with any adult as if she was a college student. It was quite amusing.

Re: A Child Thinking About Infinity (2001) [pdf]

#39

Post by tn13 » Wed, May 04, 2016, 11:25 PM UTC

jeena wrote: post #36

I was born in communist Poland and back then everybody was catholic there, and so was I. So everyone had to go to the church, so I did too. I listened what the preast had to say about the heaven and the hell, but particularly that he said one would end up there for eternety. That sunday lying in my bed I couldn't sleep. I was thinking about this infinity thing. I thought to my self, going to hell is bad because you g…

For the same reason I have found the notion of Christian God to be very scary. A father who does not die and keeps judging his children and is always powerful.

Re: A Child Thinking About Infinity (2001) [pdf]

#40

Post by branchless » Thu, May 05, 2016, 1:21 PM UTC

vmilner wrote: post #31

branchless wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a great anecdote about this. Son: the biggest number is 1081 Dad: what about 1082 Son: well, I was close

Tony Benn (UK politician) relates his grandson doing this in his diaries, but I've heard it related many times and suspect it doesn't come from that single source.

I expect as well as being borrowed many times it's also happened many times.