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I wrote a small piece on planned death

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Re: I wrote a small piece on planned death

#71
Some of my family members have died to suicide. One violently after many people could not restrain them. One very much planned, very much like Pieter. Both found reasons to end their suffering, to take authoritative control over their own death. The suffering doesn't go away, it just takes another form in other people. It seems I'm the authoritarian lunatic, the psychopath, because I cannot see what separates euthanasia from every other tragic suicide.

* Is it because someone else performs the injection? Then what about suicide by cop, and cases where the patient injects herself?

* Is it because their family members join them in that initial feeling of peace following their decision (which suicide prevention pamphlets warn to watch for)?

* Is it because a cancer patient really is better off dead? Then so are many other seemingly-hopeless people, who are depressed, abandoned, and addicted. Is it because doctors agree that they are better off dead?

Nobody is pro-suffering, but sometimes we must suffer for the things that make us human. When we hear about deaths, aren't the most painful ones those where a person has said "this human life is not worth living"? No inanimate disease can say something so painful, can affirm it so permanently through willful action.

Re: I wrote a small piece on planned death

#73

My mother had a DNR. She contracted meningitis, and died. She was resuscitated, suffered severe brain damage, and lived another 2 years as a semi-vegetable before dying in her sleep after choking on her own vomit. If I believed in such things, I would hope my stepfather is in Hell. edited for spelling

Your stepfather apparently violated your mother's directive based on the desperate belief that his spouse could recover, and she did not. This is absolutely tragic.

Then your stepfather presumably refused kill his spouse (due to hope, moral beliefs, cowardice, etc.) by unplugging her from standard, non-extraordinary life-support. She eventually died a painless death.

For which of these does he deserve to suffer for, more than he has already?

A DNR is not an order to cease basic life-support post-resuscitation. For example, I don't want extraordinary measures, but I also absolutely do not want anyone to euthanize me if I somehow end up semi-vegetative.

Re: I wrote a small piece on planned death

#74

Some of my family members have died to suicide. One violently after many people could not restrain them. One very much planned, very much like Pieter. Both found reasons to end their suffering, to take authoritative control over their own death. The suffering doesn't go away, it just takes another form in other people. It seems I'm the authoritarian lunatic, the psychopath, because I cannot see what separates euthana…

What are the downvotes for? The questions aren't rhetorical, if that's the issue - I really do want to know what distinction people see between this and suicide, which periodically comes up as a topic here, and people are so much against.

Re: I wrote a small piece on planned death

#75

My take: all the recent changes in western society could be tagged with "Individualism". Fundamental changes regarding lifestyle, relationships and sexuality were enabled by the demise of collectivist ideologies like communism and national socialism which had clear ideas how humans should live, and the wealth and flexibility of modern economies, which enable the individual to exist without any dependencies except a j…

If collective survival was the driving influence, we would have been in favor of suicide for people who were a "burden", like cancer patients.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2160/did-eskimos-pu...

Assisted suicide isn't a new freedom - we had it in the past, it went out of favor, and now it's favorable again. Ancient Greece had radical and crazy practices (infanticide, certain sexual pairings) that are revolting "right now". Having to come to terms with those particular practices isn't something that I look forward to doing in the future.

Re: I wrote a small piece on planned death

#76
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you let that pain even take over, why not gently increase Morphine as you go? That is how it's done here in the Netherlands and, I guess also in Canada now. A friend of mine (then 24) went home to die even though doctors still wanted to treat him. But as everyone else he didn't want to die alone, in a hospital. He went home, had a cigarette, stared over the sea, drank a beer with his soccer mates. Within 2…

My father died of liver cancer. He was under the care of Hospice. They gave my father enough drugs (Morphine, benzodiazepines, ect.) in the beginning. He lived two months pretty happy. He liked the effects of the drugs. My father was a pretty hardcore drinker, but very functional throughout his life. He was also very conservative, and would never take an drug that wasen't legal. Growing up, every once in awhile, he w…

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm sorry that this was such a painful experience.

Re: I wrote a small piece on planned death

#77

My mother had a DNR. She contracted meningitis, and died. She was resuscitated, suffered severe brain damage, and lived another 2 years as a semi-vegetable before dying in her sleep after choking on her own vomit. If I believed in such things, I would hope my stepfather is in Hell. edited for spelling

Your stepfather apparently violated your mother's directive based on the desperate belief that his spouse could recover, and she did not. This is absolutely tragic. Then your stepfather presumably refused kill his spouse (due to hope, moral beliefs, cowardice, etc.) by unplugging her from standard, non-extraordinary life-support. She eventually died a painless death. For which of these does he deserve to suffer for,…

> I also absolutely do not want anyone to euthanize me if I somehow end up semi-vegetative.

Just out of curiosity, why not?

Re: I wrote a small piece on planned death

#78
post #28

We strive to have a high signal to noise ratio on HN. There's nothing wrong with what you wrote, they are your emotions. However, please make an effort to tell us more about how you feel or your thoughts and comments on the post.

I can't help but point out how ironic comments like this are.

If you think that's ironic, consider how ironic it is that I'm now posting about how ironic I find your post to be about responding to an ironic post.

Re: I wrote a small piece on planned death

#79
post #3

I've chatted with friends about my desires should I get a cancer that is more likely to kill and not be treatable, to refuse chemo, and to live what remains of my life qualitatively rather than quantitatively. I would plan how best to handle my death, and aim to enjoy every moment before a quick and severe pain takes over and does the job. Some have said this is a selfish viewpoint, that I should stay around longer f…

I've had chemo twice now, the first time I got this cancer and now a different mix (folfox). The negative effects are painful yet really minor compared to the potential of getting rid of your tumor or cancer.

The first chemo (gemcytabin) was once per week, three weeks, then pause, then again, over six months. This one is two days every fortnight, for six months. The first time I was tired and a little nauseous. This time I was pretty bad for two days after the drugs, and ended up on small doses of stuff I suspect they give to psychiatric patients, to calm my vomiting.

It is still worth doing, for two reasons. One, the chemo can and does work even when the chances are low. A day or two of feeling shit is minor, compared to the chance of not dying. This notion that chemo somehow ruins your life is not accurate, generally.

Secondly, the data goes back to medical research. This is the only reason I did the chemo both times because we all know bile duct cancer just doesn't respond to chemo. But they have to keep trying different things, and one day something will work, and then they'll refine it, and it'll save lives down the line.

I'm going to write another article, about how to be happy and "life as much as possible" even with chemo. It is about simple things like having lots of company and talking openly about your situation.

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