WhatsApp is back online in Brazil • Hacker News Board

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#161

Post by deleted_soon » Wed, May 04, 2016, 5:03 PM UTC

nickik wrote: post #145

deleted_soon wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WhatsApp wouldn't keep the private keys. That being said, this system could still be hacked - when the clients exchange public keys, you insert yourself in the middle, provide your own public keys to each client, and mediate between the two clients, which gives you access to the unencrypted messages.

That only works in transport if the connection is not pinned. I don't know if they do pin, but they should. If they pin then the NSA would have to actually have access to the data center and doing that much without getting noticed is quite hard.

True, but I bet that the NSA could force WhatsApp to issue certificates for fake keys. Obviously can't do that without being noticed, but they could still use it to spy on specific users if they wanted.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#162

Post by neves » Wed, May 04, 2016, 5:28 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #89

neves wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is a fair comparison. Facebook isn't for free expression, they are for their business. The Brazilian Gov can be questioned in the Justice System, but doing so against "Freedom". Facebook dubious position about the right to be informed and the desire to control the information we access is a greater menace to freedom of expression than any ignorant Brazilian lower judge.

Every business is there for themselves. But laws or rulings blocking access to any business are anti-freedom. It's pretty simple. Sometimes there are legitimate reasons that overcome that. But not with a simple communication channel.

Here in Brazil, if you have a store, you can't refuse to sell to me because I'm gay, black, woman or any other motive. Business aren't entitled to do everything that are better for their business.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#163

Post by icebraining » Wed, May 04, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

notliketherest wrote: post #8

This follows a nation wide uproar. Definitely not a popular decision in a country that relies on this service, however the decision was made. My wife is Brazilian and you should see her Facebook news feed...they're blaming the same government they want to throw out of office - not a great timing on their part.

On whose part? This wasn't a decision by the government.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#164

Post by icebraining » Wed, May 04, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

educar wrote: post #100

ptaipale wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not understand this approach. A market solution works and is popular, so the government should step in and try to develop something better with "contracts"?

It's just a form of standardization by the government in terms of the technical protocol. Just like EU has some with OOXML and ODF. This ensures that other players can come in and build alternative clients. Without regulations, it's going to be a nation relying on a company. I don't think that is good.

The EU has been trying to enforce open formats for their own use; it doesn't try to force private individuals or companies to use them among themselves.

(It also failed; as of 2014, .doc was still used more than .odt by orders of magnitude in the major institutions - Commission, Council and Parliament)

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#165

Post by guhcampos » Wed, May 04, 2016, 6:33 PM UTC

motoboi wrote: post #64

deleted_soon wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, WhatsApp is not just refusing to comply - they can't comply, since they don't retain message data. In addition, now that all messages are encrypted end to end, it will be impossible for them to comply in the future.

Well, if they just had responded to the judge order explain that or explaining anything, maybe the judge would consider it. We came to this point because whatsapp do not exist as a company in Brazil and simply ignored the court order. Know they probably considered such orders may happen again and decided to respond to the order.

I'm not sure that's true. WhatsApp is owned by Facebook now, and Facebook has a presence in Brazil alright.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#166

Post by zyx321 » Wed, May 04, 2016, 6:58 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #134

hanspeter wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate speech has always been a violation of Facebook's ToS. The "deal" with Germany was simply that Facebook agreed to be better at actually enforcing their own terms.

You ignored the actual argument, that political policy was being falsely labeled as hate speech. I have no idea if it's true or not, but that's what you need to address if you want to discuss the nature of the deal.

It is in large part speculation and conjecture. The evidence I thought I had doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

All the same, if you don't support the right of horrble people to say horrible things, you don't actually support free speech.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#167

Post by Dylan16807 » Wed, May 04, 2016, 9:21 PM UTC

Ntrails wrote: post #159

Dylan16807 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blocking access should be a last resort, for businesses that are doing something extremely harmful. It's a consumer protection measure, not a punishment. If a business is breaking the law, you punish them with fines and the police, not by redirecting the mail/phone/packets directed at them. The citizens are the ones initiating contact with WhatsApp servers. They're the ones really being blocked here. Even though they…

>Sure they had time, but the request was physically impossible. What is supposed to happen if a judge demands a picture of you eating breakfast 8 days ago? You go to court and explain it's impossible. Sticking your fingers in your ears and singing is a poor strategy and deserves to be punished.

If you've never been to the country, ignoring a court summons sounds like a sane idea to me.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#168

Post by dublinben » Wed, May 04, 2016, 9:56 PM UTC

ptaipale wrote: post #97

dublinben wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "left-wing conservatives" mean?

I interpret it as socially conservative, but preferring strong state involvement in economy. Personal liberty is not very important. There can be rich people, but they are to be humbled by a powerful government. A very extreme example of such a regime is the National Socialist Germany.

That description, and your example, are in no way "left-wing."

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#169

Post by AnthonyMouse » Thu, May 05, 2016, 12:20 AM UTC

blowski wrote: post #151

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Either it's a for profit private company (and it can do things like that), or it's an important communication medium for a democracy (and access should be open). Blocking telegram is classic bone-headed stupidity. It's like an invitation for government lawyers to burrow under your skin and lay their eggs. But inconsistency only shows that one of their positions is wrong, and it's that one.

Paying an appropriate amount of tax in the countries in which it operates might be another. All that democracy stuff costs money and has to be paid for somehow.

It isn't a company's job to pay more taxes than it owes, it's a country's job to set sensible taxes.

Stop trying to tax "corporate income" for multinational entities that can trivially shift profits into other countries, and instead tax the thing they actually do in your country.

And if they don't actually do anything in your country, what makes them owe you anything?

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#170

Post by blowski » Thu, May 05, 2016, 4:56 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #169

blowski wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying an appropriate amount of tax in the countries in which it operates might be another. All that democracy stuff costs money and has to be paid for somehow.

It isn't a company's job to pay more taxes than it owes, it's a country's job to set sensible taxes. Stop trying to tax "corporate income" for multinational entities that can trivially shift profits into other countries, and instead tax the thing they actually do in your country. And if they don't actually do anything in your country, what makes them owe you anything?

But Facebook can't have it both ways. They can't pay almost no tax and then call themselves defenders of democracy.