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I wrote a small piece on planned death

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Re: I wrote a small piece on planned death

#51

Post by mafribe »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #50
mafribe wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

conflation between communism and USSR dictatorship. It's a simplification, but historically warranted, in the sense that the USSR was created explicitly with the end-goal of leading to a communist society as described by Marx/Engels in the "Communist Manifesto", i.e., the ideal society where the "contradictions of capitalism" have disappeared. Moreover, the 10 points that the "Communist Manifesto" says (Chapter II. P…

> the USSR was created explicitly with the end-goal of leading to a communist society […] I'm not sure that's true. Granted, it was ostensibly, outwardly created for that purpose. But I'm not sure that was the actual intent of those who lead that charge. My History is quite dusty, so I wonder what exactly brought about the dictatorships you mentioned. Besides, it wouldn't be the first time a revolution lead to (near)…

   the actual intent
We cannot look into people's head. We have to take into account what they say they do. Yes, we can question to what extent they were telling the truth, possibly even to themselves.

   wouldn't be the first time
That's why revolutionary political movements continue having a bad name.

Re: I wrote a small piece on planned death

#52

Post by alanwatts »

crag wrote: post #49
alanwatts wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I never understood why our society expects people to fight the good fight. One reason I would guess is the massive fortune that is made off pharmaceutical sales. If someone takes their life early, that is potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars saved by the family that otherwise would have went to big pharma.

Nahh... that's probably part of it. But in many cases, it's the family insisting that you "drag it out". I remember at NY Hospital, this guy (in the next room) was VERY sick (AIDS) - he was at end of life. Had 105+ fever they could not get down. He was laying on a bed of ice, and the nurse was pouring ice water over him - all at the insistence of his sister. I remember thinking how could she torture her brother so mu…

Indeed, pharma sales are maybe only a small part of the reason.

The biggest reason may be the irrational terror certain societies have regarding death, which is something easily exploited by terrorists.

Even many of those who claim to know they are going to Heaven when they die are terrified to do so, indicating they don't really believe.

But where does the root of this terror come from? Perhaps it is the false belief of an artificial separation between mankind and nature

Re: I wrote a small piece on planned death

#53

Post by fsloth »

mafribe wrote: post #44
loup-vaillant wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> collectivist ideologies like communism and national socialism I sense a conflation between communism and USSR dictatorship. I'm not sure this is warranted. (Then again, China is supposedly lead by a "communist party".) More generally, are you suggesting that collectivist ideologies necessarily leads to totalitarianism? > which enable the individual to exist without any dependencies except a job. That last exception…

conflation between communism and USSR dictatorship. It's a simplification, but historically warranted, in the sense that the USSR was created explicitly with the end-goal of leading to a communist society as described by Marx/Engels in the "Communist Manifesto", i.e., the ideal society where the "contradictions of capitalism" have disappeared. Moreover, the 10 points that the "Communist Manifesto" says (Chapter II. P…

"It's a simplification, but historically warranted, in the sense that the USSR was created explicitly with the end-goal of leading to a communist society as described by Marx/Engels..."

IMO, it's not very fruitful to study the ideas of Marx/Engels together with the soviet union. Soviet union was a military dictatorship that used the communist story as the replacement theology for their domain.

Sure, there were the true believers who ate up the dogma but I'm pretty sure most of the soviet leadership were pragmatic revolutionaries who just wanted power. They needed to replace "the story of the czar as a loving father" with the story of the communist agenda in peoples minds.

Re: I wrote a small piece on planned death

#55

Post by Delmania »

datamoshr wrote: post #5

Pieters calmness as he wrote these two last pieces is admirable. As an existential thanataphobe[1] I'd love to understand a bit more on how he's come to this level of serenity and acceptance. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anxiety_(psychology)

What choice did he have? He probably went through the classic 7 stages of grief. In the end, his death was inevitable (as is all of ours), he just was faced with it as a reality as most of us think it is many years off.

Re: I wrote a small piece on planned death

#60

Post by sdegutis »

It sucks that we've taught most children for the better half of the past century to avoid all suffering at all costs. That lesson isn't actually coming from actual "compassion," which literally means "suffering with [someone]."

Sure, there are some unnecessary sufferings in life which we should avoid and help each other out of, like teaching a child not to touch a hot stove. But then there are plenty of necessary sufferings in life that people shouldn't be "saved" from, but rather taught how to deal with and handle properly.

The same people who want to avoid and help others avoid the suffering of a painful death, are the same people who would try to convince their friend to divorce her recently-drug-addicted spouse, who she should have "compassion" on, i.e. "suffer with" him, by spending her time helping him through it until either the addiction is gone or death does them part.

They're the same people who can't stand the thought of a young girl feeling ugly or a young boy feeling dumb, so they tell her how beautiful she looks in that dress or how smart he is, which inadvertently gives both of them an inferiority complex and causes them to put all their self-worth in their looks and smarts (respectively), often ironically causing the suffering they were trying to spare them from.

These are the same ones who encourage "transgender" teenagers (those who have no real condition but just want attention), because they can't stand the thought of a young person feeling unaccepted and unloved. So instead of teaching these teenagers to properly handle their emotions, and to properly examine their thoughts, they just give in and applaud them in their delusions.

All these "solutions" are actually causing more problems than they solve, both in the short-term and the long-term. All because they tried to spare someone else from a necessary form of suffering.

Rather, they should be teaching young people to learn to handle rejection, whether from a crush or a college. They should teach them to accept the truth even when it's painful to hear. They should teach them to bear patiently with the many inevitable difficulties of life. (Patience also comes from the Latin word for "suffering [with].") These are necessary forms of suffering that will come to everyone in life, and it's a shame that people aren't taught how to handle them anymore.

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