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WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

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Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#91
post #16

I hope the govt sees the reliance on this service and does something positive about it (for example, build their own or tie up with some company). Such massive dependence on a company with no contracts is going to end up in a mess later.

On the other hand, using a government issued instant messenger seems even more dangerous. I think Brazilians have more to fear from their own government than foreign governments.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard of groups of people in the Southeast talk about how the mentality of the people in the Northeast is different, and that is how you get the extremist judge.

> I've heard of groups of people in the Southeast talk about how the mentality of the people in the Northeast is different Being born in the capital and lived in the Northeast for 3 decades, I can attest that the mentality is indeed different. For instance: the biggest A-holes usually come from the Southeast. See what I did there? I have many examples to back this up, but they prove nothing. Generalizations are harmf…

>Being born in the capital and lived in the Northeast for 3 decades, I can attest that the mentality is indeed different.

>For instance: the biggest A-holes usually come from the Southeast. See what I did there? I have many examples to back this up, but they prove nothing. Generalizations are harmful.

The person you're replying to didn't say that either mentality was better or worse, just that they were different enough to lead to 'extremes'. Don't mock that as an us-vs-them slapfight.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#93
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook is not a democracy and they can block and censor pretty much any message they like, but now they go on to tell Brazil how it should run its judicial system Yeah, Facebook is a company - not a country. You can't compare apples to oranges. Facebook can do whatever it want and people are free to chose to use it service or not. Brazilians had no choice on this case.

Brazilians can use other apps if they want them too. I don't see your point of freedom to communicate being blocked. You're complaining as tcp/ip would've been blocked and it's not. The point here is Whatsapp is not cooperating with authorities, and surely that's not remotely plausible in a state government. I'm not saying they have to weak encryption or putting backdoors, but a reasonable way to help any government…

'I'm not saying they have to weak encryption or putting backdoors, but a reasonable way to help any government with investigations which hurt society in general.'

What is it with the "I'm not saying they should have a backdoor, but there should really be [some rhetorically obfuscated equivalent to a backdoor]"?

This is cryptography, not politics. There's no middle ground here. You either have secure communications or you don't. If the data can be provided to the government, that also means it can be leaked, stolen, purchased, spied upon, etc.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#94
post #50
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the end-to-end encryption is working as designed then "a big fat pipe into the WhatsApp data-center" would be of no help. For high enough value targets the NSA is probably happy to compromise the endpoints.

Can't it be e2e encryption with WhatsApp keeping a copy of the private keys? or does e2e enc implicitly means the private keys are never exchanged?

With end to end encryption the private keys are generated on the endpoint, there's no need for them to ever leave it.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#95
post #46

> the idea that everyone in Brazil can be denied the freedom to communicate the way they want is very scary in a democracy Says the person (in name of the company, I assume) whose company blocks things they don't "like", such as messages containing telegram.org or telegram.me[1]. Now Facebook is not a democracy and they can block and censor pretty much any message they like, but now they go on to tell Brazil how it s…

But wait, if WhatsApp is end-to-end encrypted, that failure to URL convert must be a local operation. And if it's a local operation, maybe there's a workaround. But maybe apps are locked down too tightly. In any case, going from telegram.org as text to https://telegram.org/ is not exactly rocket science, no?

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#96
post #30

We dodged this bullet but here in Brazil but RIGHT NOW there is a much more dangerous risk: with the Parliamentary Commission on Cybercrimes (CPI dos Crimes Cibernéticos / CPICIBER) report a "combo" of bills will get "fast track" on Congress and, to list some things, expand data retention, allow access to IP addresses without warrant and allow judges to block "illegal" content, including copyright violations much lik…

Your page isn't clear, what exactly happens tomorrow? Is it the final voting on the CPI? Or is there some law project under vote right now?

Here's my article summarizing the status and what can happen today (no time to translate unfortunately):

https://antivigilancia.org/pt/2016/05/cpiciber-o-que-pode-sa...

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#97
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is obvious, or that I'm wrong, but the issue in Brazil is that most Brazilians are left-wing conservatives AND within in recent past put the current government in power. Long term this is the issue, not these "cyber attacks" - which are to me very problematic, but only a symptom of the issue.

What does "left-wing conservatives" mean?

I interpret it as socially conservative, but preferring strong state involvement in economy.

Personal liberty is not very important. There can be rich people, but they are to be humbled by a powerful government. A very extreme example of such a regime is the National Socialist Germany.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#98
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, WhatsApp is not just refusing to comply - they can't comply, since they don't retain message data. In addition, now that all messages are encrypted end to end, it will be impossible for them to comply in the future.

Well, if they just had responded to the judge order explain that or explaining anything, maybe the judge would consider it. We came to this point because whatsapp do not exist as a company in Brazil and simply ignored the court order. Know they probably considered such orders may happen again and decided to respond to the order.

I am sure the judge has been explained, by newspapers at least. If he knew what he was ruling about, he wouldn't even need an explanation.

With such absurd court rulings, it is clearly a wise decision to not have employees in the country.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#99
post #16

I hope the govt sees the reliance on this service and does something positive about it (for example, build their own or tie up with some company). Such massive dependence on a company with no contracts is going to end up in a mess later.

I do not understand this approach. A market solution works and is popular, so the government should step in and try to develop something better with "contracts"?

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#100
post #16

I hope the govt sees the reliance on this service and does something positive about it (for example, build their own or tie up with some company). Such massive dependence on a company with no contracts is going to end up in a mess later.

I do not understand this approach. A market solution works and is popular, so the government should step in and try to develop something better with "contracts"?

It's just a form of standardization by the government in terms of the technical protocol. Just like EU has some with OOXML and ODF. This ensures that other players can come in and build alternative clients. Without regulations, it's going to be a nation relying on a company. I don't think that is good.
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