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Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

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Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#71

Post by whyenot »

zamalek wrote: post #59
whyenot wrote: post #20

Five hundred years ago, Spaniards spread the seeds of european annual grasses as they traveled between missions in California. Within a century or two, a large part of the California landscape had changed. Annual grasses crowded out native perennial grasses, and we got our "golden hills." Nobody knows exactly what California looked like before the Spanish arrived or how many species may have gone extinct, but you can…

> What it likely will do is over time dramatically change the makeup of the oak woodlands, especially along the coast and in the Sierra Nevada foothills. Once the disease has run its course (read: all affected oaks dead), couldn't we reintroduce the extinct oaks? We've bought back a species from near-extinction already[1]. [1]: http://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2012/02/24/147367644/si...

The problem is, it doesn't just infect oaks, but several other plant species like California bay laurel. The pathogen lives as an endophyte in the leaves of bay laurel without killing the host or even causing significant damage, yet still spreading the disease. In fact, one method to control the disease is to physically remove all the bay laurel trees from an area you would like to protect. How well this actually works is not clear to me, but I haven't kept up with the literature.

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#72

Post by harlanlewis »

jqm wrote: post #6

The prevention to this type of problem is probably the same measure needed to fix many forestry problems. Regular fires. But now we have homes right up to the forest and no one wants to look at charred land for two decades. So I suppose it's still a no go. The thing about fire though is eventually it probably happens anyway.

For SOD, there's actually a fairly simple preventative step everyone could take that is poorly publicized.

It wasn't until I happened to be out with someone who does environmental impact studies for the army corp of engineers that I learned how easily SOD can be transported from place to place through the soil that collects on clothing. Most of us wash after a trip outside, but we should be bleaching our shoes. The pathogen is quite hardy and can survive the seasons without a plant host. Without a thorough wash, the next trip we take is likely to drop off a few spores, risking its introduction to plants we touch and the watershed.

That said, this is just one of many preventative steps, and one that's unlikely to be broadly adopted. We're likely too far down the road already for a lot of impacted forests.

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#73

Post by callmeed »

whyenot wrote: post #20

Five hundred years ago, Spaniards spread the seeds of european annual grasses as they traveled between missions in California. Within a century or two, a large part of the California landscape had changed. Annual grasses crowded out native perennial grasses, and we got our "golden hills." Nobody knows exactly what California looked like before the Spanish arrived or how many species may have gone extinct, but you can…

See also: the eucalyptus tree which was brought to CA in the 1800s and spread rapidly before everyone realized that young trees are useless for timber [0][1]

Here on the Central Coast, there are eucalyptus groves everywhere (some are massive). They are messy, a fire hazard, and useless for firewood.

0. http://www.independent.com/news/2011/jan/15/how-eucalyptus-c...

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptus#North_America

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#74

Post by panglott »

zamalek wrote: post #59
whyenot wrote: post #20

Five hundred years ago, Spaniards spread the seeds of european annual grasses as they traveled between missions in California. Within a century or two, a large part of the California landscape had changed. Annual grasses crowded out native perennial grasses, and we got our "golden hills." Nobody knows exactly what California looked like before the Spanish arrived or how many species may have gone extinct, but you can…

> What it likely will do is over time dramatically change the makeup of the oak woodlands, especially along the coast and in the Sierra Nevada foothills. Once the disease has run its course (read: all affected oaks dead), couldn't we reintroduce the extinct oaks? We've bought back a species from near-extinction already[1]. [1]: http://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2012/02/24/147367644/si...

Look at the decades of effort that's gone into restoring the American chestnut, one of the most productive and economically important trees of eastern North America. This is not something that is easy to do.

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#75

Post by masklinn »

ubernostrum wrote: post #22
djsumdog wrote: post #13

> The disease is actually related to the pathogen that caused the Irish potato famine in the 1800s I was in Ireland a few months ago. Someone I met in Galway said this famine wasn't really a famine; that there were plenty of crops. The king simply withheld the potato supply, forcing the famine.

So, what happened (slight oversimplification, but you can read up on it) was: * English people owned the land and the produce of the land in Ireland. * Irish people had little choice but to work for English people, and were allowed tiny plots of often-horrendous land on which to grow their own food. Potatoes were one of the few things that could grow on the land the Irish were allowed to use. When disease affected th…

> * English people owned the land and the produce of the land in Ireland.

Of note, the english landlords didn't own the land out of any deservedness. The english crown had passed a number of penal laws fully intended to — and very successful at — transferring irish land from catholic owners to anglican owners.

Amongst these:

* catholics were mostly barred from education

* catholics were barred from buying or inheriting protestant land

* catholics could not buy land under leases of more than 31 years

* catholics were barred from primogeniture (inherited land had to be equally split amongst all sons, fragmenting it), unless the heir converted

Over just the 18th century (between 1688 and 1776) Catholic ownership went from ~25% of irish land to ~5%.

And it started that low because the 18th century round of Penal Laws followed from the early 17th century one between 1606 (gunpowder plot) and 1660 (declaration of breda), which had already generated significant land transfer from irish catholics to protestant english and scottish settlers.

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#76

Post by gricardo99 »

stevecalifornia wrote: post #30
whyenot wrote: post #20

Five hundred years ago, Spaniards spread the seeds of european annual grasses as they traveled between missions in California. Within a century or two, a large part of the California landscape had changed. Annual grasses crowded out native perennial grasses, and we got our "golden hills." Nobody knows exactly what California looked like before the Spanish arrived or how many species may have gone extinct, but you can…

Not plant related, but equally fascinating: There used to be a lake bigger than Lake Tahoe in California between Fresno and Bakersfield. It It was the largest fresh water lake west of the Great Lakes (by surface area). It was drained for agriculture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulare_Lake

I discovered this historical trivia myself by chance not long ago. While stopping in Kettleman City off of I-5, there's a retail complex called Bravo Farms. Inside, near the restrooms there's a map on the wall showing a massive "Tulare Lake". I could hardly believe such a large lake existed in this area not too long ago and it's mostly forgotten.

Google image search, and I found someone else posted a pic of the map: http://ink361.com/app/users/ig-2115609400/eccentricculinary/...

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#77

Post by gohrt »

tzs wrote: post #26
djsumdog wrote: post #13

> The disease is actually related to the pathogen that caused the Irish potato famine in the 1800s I was in Ireland a few months ago. Someone I met in Galway said this famine wasn't really a famine; that there were plenty of crops. The king simply withheld the potato supply, forcing the famine.

That's partly correct and partly incorrect. It's incorrect in the claim that the government withheld the potato supply. The potato crop massively failed due to potato blight. The government had nothing to do with the potato shortage. This was not just in Ireland, but also through Europe. It was more significant in Ireland, though, because something like 40% of the population depended on potatoes for most of their nut…

Similar to how the British colonial tyrants killed millions of Indians by exporting crops during a famine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1876%E2%80%937...

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#78

Post by gohrt »

tzs wrote: post #26
djsumdog wrote: post #13

> The disease is actually related to the pathogen that caused the Irish potato famine in the 1800s I was in Ireland a few months ago. Someone I met in Galway said this famine wasn't really a famine; that there were plenty of crops. The king simply withheld the potato supply, forcing the famine.

That's partly correct and partly incorrect. It's incorrect in the claim that the government withheld the potato supply. The potato crop massively failed due to potato blight. The government had nothing to do with the potato shortage. This was not just in Ireland, but also through Europe. It was more significant in Ireland, though, because something like 40% of the population depended on potatoes for most of their nut…

Similar to how the British colonial tyrants killed millions of Indians by exporting crops during a famine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1876%E2%80%937...

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#79

Post by gohrt »

tzs wrote: post #26
djsumdog wrote: post #13

> The disease is actually related to the pathogen that caused the Irish potato famine in the 1800s I was in Ireland a few months ago. Someone I met in Galway said this famine wasn't really a famine; that there were plenty of crops. The king simply withheld the potato supply, forcing the famine.

That's partly correct and partly incorrect. It's incorrect in the claim that the government withheld the potato supply. The potato crop massively failed due to potato blight. The government had nothing to do with the potato shortage. This was not just in Ireland, but also through Europe. It was more significant in Ireland, though, because something like 40% of the population depended on potatoes for most of their nut…

Similar to how the British colonial tyrants killed millions of Indians by exporting crops during a famine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1876%E2%80%937...

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#80

Post by gohrt »

tzs wrote: post #26
djsumdog wrote: post #13

> The disease is actually related to the pathogen that caused the Irish potato famine in the 1800s I was in Ireland a few months ago. Someone I met in Galway said this famine wasn't really a famine; that there were plenty of crops. The king simply withheld the potato supply, forcing the famine.

That's partly correct and partly incorrect. It's incorrect in the claim that the government withheld the potato supply. The potato crop massively failed due to potato blight. The government had nothing to do with the potato shortage. This was not just in Ireland, but also through Europe. It was more significant in Ireland, though, because something like 40% of the population depended on potatoes for most of their nut…

Similar to how the English colonial tyrants killed millions of Indians by exporting crops during a famine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1876%E2%80%937...

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