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Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#51

Post by ars »

justratsinacoat wrote: post #3

>while there may once have been a chance to stop the spread of $ARTICLE_TOPIC — around the year $CURRENT_DATE_MINUS_FIFTEEN_YEARS — that opportunity has since passed. Forces didn’t mobilize fast enough or spend enough money FTA, with minor edits; I think we'll see a lot more language like this in the coming ten years. The consequence, which absolutely no one would be against ("what do you mean, there's 90% fewer oak…

> I think we'll see a lot more language like this in the coming ten years.

?? Why? What's special about the coming ten years?

FWIW I've always seen this kind of language, it's not in the slightest new. You could go to most any point in history and find similar things.

The problem is you can only tell what needs [needed] the money in hindsight. In 2002 did you know we needed the money for this? Did anyone?

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#52

Post by pfarnsworth »

I'm sorry but isn't this just Darwinism in play here? You get natural selection, and various species that are selected against become extinct.

But it's not like it's going to turn into some sort of desert, the area, after forest fires, will be replaced by another species that is presumably resistant to the fungus, and life moves on.

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#53

Post by [deleted] »

whyenot wrote: post #20

Five hundred years ago, Spaniards spread the seeds of european annual grasses as they traveled between missions in California. Within a century or two, a large part of the California landscape had changed. Annual grasses crowded out native perennial grasses, and we got our "golden hills." Nobody knows exactly what California looked like before the Spanish arrived or how many species may have gone extinct, but you can…

[deleted]

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#55

Post by shostack »

djsumdog wrote: post #15
shostack wrote: post #2

I wonder if they'll find any hope with those trees left unscathed that are deemed "resistant." Also, with something like this, how do they remove the trees without the disease spreading in the process? I know when I go to prune bits of my roses that have black spot or rust, it can spread just by contact in the course of removal which can be damn near impossible to avoid. I can only imagine how that scales at tree siz…

I was thinking the remaining trees will just spread and the dead ones will feed the ecosystem. The danger of course is forest fires. So long as nothing catches fire, the system can continue to build upon the non-resistant trees.

While forest fires could be a risk, could those also be beneficial to the affected areas? For example, I wonder how well this disease stands up to heat.

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#56

Post by estreeper »

whyenot wrote: post #20

Five hundred years ago, Spaniards spread the seeds of european annual grasses as they traveled between missions in California. Within a century or two, a large part of the California landscape had changed. Annual grasses crowded out native perennial grasses, and we got our "golden hills." Nobody knows exactly what California looked like before the Spanish arrived or how many species may have gone extinct, but you can…

I grew up in northern New Mexico, in an area where piñon and juniper trees grew together, dotting the landscape as far as you could see.

About 15 years ago, after years of drought causing tree weakness, we had a bark beetle epidemic. It affected only the piñon, but losses were close to 100% in many areas. We had probably around 150 piñon trees: after the epidemic, 4 remained. It was heartbreaking to drive around and see huge swaths of brown, dead trees covering the land. The alteration was dramatic.

Only now, the progeny of those dead trees are beginning to come back. It will still probably be another 20 years before things start to look normal to me. The makeup of our forests in California will be altered for a long time, in the best case.

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#57

Post by arcticfox »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #52

I'm sorry but isn't this just Darwinism in play here? You get natural selection, and various species that are selected against become extinct. But it's not like it's going to turn into some sort of desert, the area, after forest fires, will be replaced by another species that is presumably resistant to the fungus, and life moves on.

It's a rhododendron disease from the Netherlands. You're right, that this is Darwinism in play, but it's due to human influence. So human intervention is no more artificial than the original evolutionary pressure.

It just depends whether we value preserving diverse ecosystems, or if we're happy to spread species / diseases around the world and just see what survives. I'm not saying there's a fundamentally "right" answer, but I prefer diverse ecosystems to the point I think it's worth trying to intervene when possible.

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#58

Post by jokr004 »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #52

I'm sorry but isn't this just Darwinism in play here? You get natural selection, and various species that are selected against become extinct. But it's not like it's going to turn into some sort of desert, the area, after forest fires, will be replaced by another species that is presumably resistant to the fungus, and life moves on.

I don't think anyone is trying to blame someone for this.. Absolutely this is nature taking its course, but we happen to like oak trees so it might make sense that we would try and protect them.

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#59

Post by zamalek »

whyenot wrote: post #20

Five hundred years ago, Spaniards spread the seeds of european annual grasses as they traveled between missions in California. Within a century or two, a large part of the California landscape had changed. Annual grasses crowded out native perennial grasses, and we got our "golden hills." Nobody knows exactly what California looked like before the Spanish arrived or how many species may have gone extinct, but you can…

> What it likely will do is over time dramatically change the makeup of the oak woodlands, especially along the coast and in the Sierra Nevada foothills.

Once the disease has run its course (read: all affected oaks dead), couldn't we reintroduce the extinct oaks? We've bought back a species from near-extinction already[1].

[1]: http://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2012/02/24/147367644/si...

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#60

Post by adolgert »

djsumdog wrote: post #13

> The disease is actually related to the pathogen that caused the Irish potato famine in the 1800s I was in Ireland a few months ago. Someone I met in Galway said this famine wasn't really a famine; that there were plenty of crops. The king simply withheld the potato supply, forcing the famine.

It doesn't take a huge drop in production to cause famine, either. The Wheat Stem Rust epidemics in the US caused famines at regular intervals before genetics made wheat resistant, and production was down under ten percent in some cases. It's about getting food where it needs to be, and it sounds like the English weren't helping.
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