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Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

washingtonpost.com

21–30 of 147 posts

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#21

> The disease is actually related to the pathogen that caused the Irish potato famine in the 1800s I was in Ireland a few months ago. Someone I met in Galway said this famine wasn't really a famine; that there were plenty of crops. The king simply withheld the potato supply, forcing the famine.

This is true, it lasted 7 years. 1 million died, 1 million forced to emigrate, 25% of Ireland's population

There was a potato blight, potatoes were grown by the Irish folk for sustenance.

Many Irish peasants & farmers starved to death on Absentee Estate Farms which were exporting food crops to be sold - worse aid from England was withheld for considerable time.

It is a shameful episode in the History between Ireland and England.

In those times many viewed the lower classes and other nationalities as somehow less human than themselves.

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#22

> The disease is actually related to the pathogen that caused the Irish potato famine in the 1800s I was in Ireland a few months ago. Someone I met in Galway said this famine wasn't really a famine; that there were plenty of crops. The king simply withheld the potato supply, forcing the famine.

So, what happened (slight oversimplification, but you can read up on it) was:

* English people owned the land and the produce of the land in Ireland.

* Irish people had little choice but to work for English people, and were allowed tiny plots of often-horrendous land on which to grow their own food.

Potatoes were one of the few things that could grow on the land the Irish were allowed to use. When disease affected the potato crops, the English simply shrugged, kept exporting their own produce, and let the Irish die (and notably took steps to try to prevent foreign aid reaching Ireland, on the theory that it would be shameful for foreigners to do more for the Irish than the English were doing).

There are strong arguments to be made, especially given the historical English attitude toward Ireland and the Irish, that it turned into an opportunistic genocide: the English didn't set out at first to kill so many Irish, but given the opportunity to simply sit back and let the Irish die off, they took it.

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#23

This makes me wonder what role fire normally plays in the life-cycle of tree pathogens. Does this fungus survive heat well? Can it survive in the soil long enough to spread to a new host (presumably a new Oak tree)? As a second point, this demonstrates the danger presented by monoculture. The industrialization of agriculture horticulture has been unquestionably beneficial for us as a species. However, we do an absolu…

This might be of interest to your temperature question. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18592898

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#24

> The disease is actually related to the pathogen that caused the Irish potato famine in the 1800s I was in Ireland a few months ago. Someone I met in Galway said this famine wasn't really a famine; that there were plenty of crops. The king simply withheld the potato supply, forcing the famine.

They're basically right. Ireland grew lots of crops, but the only one affected was potatoes. Unfortunately the only crop the vast majority of the population could afford was potatoes, as all the other crops were exported.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)#Irish_f...

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#26

> The disease is actually related to the pathogen that caused the Irish potato famine in the 1800s I was in Ireland a few months ago. Someone I met in Galway said this famine wasn't really a famine; that there were plenty of crops. The king simply withheld the potato supply, forcing the famine.

That's partly correct and partly incorrect. It's incorrect in the claim that the government withheld the potato supply. The potato crop massively failed due to potato blight. The government had nothing to do with the potato shortage. This was not just in Ireland, but also through Europe. It was more significant in Ireland, though, because something like 40% of the population depended on potatoes for most of their nutrition.

It is correct that there were plenty of crops, but these were grain crops, not potatoes, which were raised largely for export. In earlier famines the government had banned exports and made those non-potato crops go to feeding the Irish. That was very unpopular with businesses. In the Great Famine the government did not curb exports, and so even though Ireland was producing enough non-potato food to feed those who had been depending almost solely on potatoes, that food was exported instead. So in that sense, much of the blame for results of the potato crop failures can be laid at the hands of the government.

Edit: there is an interesting song, written by Steven and Peter Jones, based on letters their great-great-grandfather in Ireland sent to their great-grandfather, who had immigrated to the United States. There are five verses, covering the contents of five of the letters, between 1860 and 1892. Although this is after the Great Famine, it provides an interesting look at what life was like in Ireland for ordinary farmers as they went through hardship and had family members leaving the country.

Here's a nice performance of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRHQAtKbRTk

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#27
post #6

The prevention to this type of problem is probably the same measure needed to fix many forestry problems. Regular fires. But now we have homes right up to the forest and no one wants to look at charred land for two decades. So I suppose it's still a no go. The thing about fire though is eventually it probably happens anyway.

It's unfortunate that most the public isn't aware of how important forest fires are. Humans suppressing forest fires cause more damage in the long run.

As far as I understand, fires essentially burn up the dead bits on the ground. When it happens naturally, the fires don't hurt the trees. But humans stop areas from burning and the dead bits build up and burn hotter, setting the trees ablaze and then we get these crazy forest fires. We just need to let them burn on their own, it'll sort itself out.

I hear this all the time from people I work with, Forestry department at a University.

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#28

What can be done to deal with the death of trees, then? Mass planting of resistant species?

This is the natural cycle of things. The dead trees will open up space for competitors to move in until some disease/insect/etc... comes in to clear out the new competitors and open up space for yet another competitor.

It's really only a problem if the trees are crop trees and someone's livelihood is at stake (see: Orange Greening). Otherwise it's best (easiest) to just leave the problem alone and accept that something else will take the place of those trees.

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#29

It's disappointing to see serious reporting like this saddled with a clickbait title like "This disease has killed a million trees in California, and scientists say it’s basically unstoppable."

After reading the article, that seems like a fair summary. What do you feel is wrong with it?

Re: Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer stoppable

#30
post #20

Five hundred years ago, Spaniards spread the seeds of european annual grasses as they traveled between missions in California. Within a century or two, a large part of the California landscape had changed. Annual grasses crowded out native perennial grasses, and we got our "golden hills." Nobody knows exactly what California looked like before the Spanish arrived or how many species may have gone extinct, but you can…

Not plant related, but equally fascinating: There used to be a lake bigger than Lake Tahoe in California between Fresno and Bakersfield. It It was the largest fresh water lake west of the Great Lakes (by surface area). It was drained for agriculture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulare_Lake

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