Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

teslamotors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 150 posts

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#121

Post by beachstartup »

jonlucc wrote: post #108
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #99

I think they are not testing with small enough particles. In the article, they test with PM 2.5 particles which would be around 2.5 micro meters. However, if you look at the table on page 11 of http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/409903O/respiratory-prote... Potential bio weapons such as smallpox, anthrax, influenza and the hemorrhagic viruses are far smaller than 2.5 microns. Also, there are probably issues with the…

I also haven't thought of a case in which it matters to protect the interior of the car. I can't live in that car for more than a couple days without resupply (assuming I'm driving around with several cases of water which would be more than a little paranoid), so at some point I have to expose myself to the pathogens present on the outside of the vehicle.

lots of people keep a pack of bottled water in the car. if not for paranoid reasons, then for general convenience.

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#123

Post by HillaryBriss »

tristanj wrote: post #36
tn13 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Tesla making cars for Indonesia, Singapore or China currently? Surely there are problem all over the planet but I don't see why American government must subsidize solving those problems.

GM, Ford, and Chrysler receive billions in subsidies. During the 2008 Auto crisis the US gave those three $70 billion to keep them afloat. The US subsidizes its car companies. It also spends tens of billions subsidizing Boeing, Intel, Lockheed-Martin, IBM, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, and various airlines. Telsa, like many other companies, also receives subsidies. So what? There's nothing special going on here.

Ford's case was somewhat different from that of the other carmakers. They accepted some government loans, but not the cash for equity swap.

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/09/ford-motor-co-does-u-turn-o...

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#124

Post by zbjornson »

jernfrost wrote: post #77
WordyMcWordface wrote: post #63

This is so cool. My bosch vacuum cleaner has a hepa filter, I'm going to duct tape my RC car to it, turn it on and call it a "Bio-weapon defense drone"

But apparently that HEPA filter is nothing like the Tesla filter. I believe I saw a comparison where the Tesla filter blocked something like 100x smaller particles than your typical vacuum cleaner HEPA.

If that's the case it probably would have been listed as ULPA...

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#125

Post by HillaryBriss »

tn13 wrote: post #20
SteveNuts wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Can you expand on that please?

Elon Musk's rich people's gadgets are heavily subsidized by American government (read average Americans). American government is paying around $8k per car to Musk. A lot of this money seems to be wasted to adding swag to this car that gets Musk some positive PR if nothing else. It is stupid to point out that this might help China or some other polluted country, why should Americans pay for it ? Very likely China will…

What if I don't believe a biological war is likely? Or, what if I would rather just "get it over with" in the event of a biological war?

Can I pay less for a Tesla which _lacks_ this level of filtration?

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#126

Post by kragen »

hinkley wrote: post #118
kragen wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the hazmat teams arrive! What, are you going to wait around in the danger zone and keep breathing spores? I'll adopt your kids if they're good at scrubbing floors and cooking.

You're the guy in the epidemic movies that breaks quarantine and kills another million people by sneaking the pathogen out of the hot zone. Man I hate that guy. If you breathed spores you're already infected. Your car can't help. And the spores on the outside get spread, plus the ones in your filter kill your automechanic and that starts the second wave.

Epidemic-causing pathogens like plague are nearly useless as bioweapons: they're more likely to kill the attacker (or their friends, family, or entire country) than the people they're trying to attack. Actual bioweapons are almost invariably things like anthrax, brucellosis, and botulinum, where person-to-person spread is rare or impossible, and which you're very likely to survive if you can keep your dose down and get treatment.

You shouldn't be getting your information about the world from movies — that can get you killed — and you especially shouldn't be criticizing people who know more than you on the basis of movie plots.

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#127

Post by logfromblammo »

viraptor wrote: post #51
sndean wrote: post #23

Why couldn't they have just left it as "it's a really good air filter"? If you're in the vicinity of bioweapon aerosol, the particles will possibly still be present in air once you get out or will have coated your car. Also, for some of these organisms, you only need to inhale So, unless Tesla plans on packing powered air purifying respirators [2] in their cars, this is a gimmick. [1] http://www.asm.org/ccLibraryFile…

I think people read it too literally right now. If you say some road bollard is so strong it could survive a bomb explosion you usually don't expect bomb explosions. It's just that it survives large forces. This system stops particles as small as ones that could be used in bio weapons. It's a theoretic comparison, not a warfare ad.

That's the sort of thing you say when your bollard is not strong enough to stop a fully-loaded tractor-trailer driving into it, which is the use case you would expect for a bollard. Mentioning bomb resistance is just trying to equate different types of large forces in the mind of the buyer.

If a bomb goes off, no one would even care whether that one stupid bollard survived it. The major failure mode of a bollard will be due to buckling, shearing force at ground level, or cracking the foundation cylinder, as the force from impact is transmitted down the lever of the bollard into unyielding earth. And even if the bollard itself is destroyed, it is still partially successful if it can slow down or stop the truck. Does hiding behind a bollard protect you from a bomb? No. Bombs and bollards just don't ever meet in real life.

Bioweapon defense mode is something I would expect in a top-shelf building HVAC controller for hospitals or AAA office space. The bioweapon defense mode that already exists in my own car is "drive as fast as is prudent, away from the attack site, without stopping to refuel/recharge". The bioweapon defense mode for my own home is putting duct tape on the edges of the windows and doors. Anything more would be overkill--a waste of money, over something that will likely never happen.

What is the actual use case here? Pollen. If you're allergic to tree pollen, you will sneeze less on your way to work while driving the Tesla in the spring. Is that statement not exciting enough to sell those cars?

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#129

Post by dragonwriter »

aerovistae wrote: post #8
taneq wrote: post #6

> You can literally survive a military grade bio attack by sitting in your car. Unless you're being attacked with smog, this seems rather hyperbolic. I can't imagine that two minutes breathing, say, aerosolized tweaked Spanish influenza, would be 'safe'. Maybe if you were in the car with the system running before the attack, though?

Seriously. Advertising this without testing against pathogens is a joke. (And I'm as big a Tesla fan as there is, but that's an objective fact from a QA perspective.) But then again, testing against smog is something a group of engineers can do on their own. Testing against lethal and highly contagious airborn pathogens is hardly something you can just up and do in your ordinary automotive lab. Doubt they're prepared…

> Advertising this without testing against pathogens is a joke.

And, possibly, illegal. I mean, it seems to me that asserting that the car provides a "bioweapons defense mode" (and, a fortiori, the marketing claim that "You can literally survive a military grade bio attack by sitting in your car") is clearly promoting the car with a claim that is a "machine...intended for use in the...prevention of disease, in man", and, as such, a medical device subject to premarket and postmarket regulatory control by the FDA: http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/DeviceRegulationandGuidanc...

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#130

Post by jonlucc »

beachstartup wrote: post #121
jonlucc wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also haven't thought of a case in which it matters to protect the interior of the car. I can't live in that car for more than a couple days without resupply (assuming I'm driving around with several cases of water which would be more than a little paranoid), so at some point I have to expose myself to the pathogens present on the outside of the vehicle.

lots of people keep a pack of bottled water in the car. if not for paranoid reasons, then for general convenience.

Sure, but to live in the car long enough for water to not be the limiting factor, it'd take a couple cases I'd think.
Post reply on HN