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Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

bbc.com

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Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#101

Post by j_s »

orkoden wrote: post #95

As the bible says http://www.bibleserver.com/text/ESV/Deuteronomy23%2C25 > If you go into your neighbor’s vineyard, you may eat your fill of grapes, as many as you wish, but you shall not put any in your bag. 25 If you go into your neighbor’s standing grain, you may pluck the ears with your hand, but you shall not put a sickle to your neighbor’s standing grain. Stealing food is okay sometimes. There's even a word in…

Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry; But if he be found, he shall restore sevenfold; he shall give all the substance of his house.

Proverbs 6:30-31

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#102

Post by lorenzhs »

krzrak wrote: post #74

Do you need to be hungry and poor, or just hungry? If latter - you can just help yourself in the supermarket whenever you wish?

To quote the article, the court ruled the way it did because he took those things "in the face of the immediate and essential need for nourishment". Having a craving in the supermarket is not the same thing.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#103

Post by talmand »

Dotnaught wrote: post #73

But if the food is locked away, it's presumably still a crime to damage property and/or bypass a lock to obtain the food. So this interpretation of the law creates an incentive for grocers to keep food out of reach. And thirst being even more basic than hunger, is it excusable to steal beer when desperately dehydrated or just bottled water? If food is deemed an inalienable right, then a tax to feed the hungry seems l…

Your beer versus water question works for food as well. Will there be difference of opinion by the law if the starving man steals bread versus steak?

The tax, or charity for that matter, to feed the poor is something that works quite well in many areas of the world, even in the evil capitalistic systems.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#105

Post by distances »

School-Cotton wrote: post #85
distances wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's legal for stores to choose their customers.

In the U.S. it certainly is, as long as you're not discriminating against one of a short whitelist of protected classes (homeless isn't on that list). I don't know the law in Italy. Do you, or are you just speculating?

I'm speculating based on the rules in Finland, assuming they would be quite similar in Italy. In Finland a store may not choose their customers based on a broad criteria (such as age, ethnicity, disability, sexual orientation or other reason related to the person). I'm sure being poor would be included in this list. Badly behaving customers can be expelled.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#106

Post by linux_girl »

66% of the United States is overweight and obese. Yet these people will complain they are "hungry" even after they've hit the calories proscribed by their Basal Metabolism Rate (usually at breakfast).

I hope Overweight people can never be considered "hungry" over this judge's law.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#107

Post by hartpuff »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #41
sp332 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being poor shouldn't mean you can't get basic life-sustaining things like food, shelter, clothing. That's why being poor is not an excuse for stealing but being hungry is.

Considering Italy is a welfare-style state, this just opens up cannoli snatching and such instead of going to whatever socialized or charitable shelters and services. Unhealthy high sugar and high caffeine foods will be in demand by snatchers. Ironically, this is going to hurt the working poor the most who work at low margin restaurants, retail shops, etc as people just grab whatever they want because there is no mor…

> What if a hungry person decided to smash up a $5,000 vending machine to get a sandwich or a coffee?

Did they legalize smashing up $5000 vending machines if you're hungry too?

> Does the Italian government pay for the repairs?

Do Governments usually pay for repairs to private property?

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#108

Post by drzaiusapelord »

rootlocus wrote: post #63
delecti wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, surely the store from which he stole is still victimized by the theft. Is every supermarket now de facto required to set up small food pantries for the poor to protect themselves from theft?

Considering the massive amounts of food that gets thrown away even before the expiration date, I'm amazed this is even an issue. There was an entire episode of "Last Week Tonight" on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8xwLWb0lLY

They're not stealing from the 'expired food' area.

Expired food in many countries ends up in food pantries as the date for canned and dried food has more to do with freshness/taste than actual health issues. So its already being socialized.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#109

Post by talmand »

saosebastiao wrote: post #97

If you're gonna force business owners to give to the poor, why not do it through an established and equitable mechanism like taxation/redistribution, instead of subjecting select types of business owners to the whims of a mostly subjective claim? Why force the burden on a bakery but not a tailor or a chocolatier? I can't help but be concerned about this growing trend of governments slowly pushing off the burden of ge…

Or even better, implement the system that is starting to decent success in many areas; mandate that stores hand over still edible foods they would normally throw away due to standard business practices.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#110

Post by CajunAlexTrebec »

akrigline wrote: post #90

The way the judges worded this decision makes it a lot less of a slippery slope. This was only accepted because it was an "Immediate and essential need for nourishment." I expect that if more people started stealing, they'd be put through a court process to prove that they were in this condition. What this doesn't do is fix the problem though, it just recognizes a symptom. Why are these people forced to resort to ste…

Italy is falling apart, financially speaking. The people of Italy are suffering as a result.

Nearly 50% of bank loans are non-performing (in default). The EBC is conducting a stealth bailout via Target2. Just look at the major Italian bank stocks. They are trading at deep, deep discounts. Maybe the market knows something the EBC and others don't want to admit?

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