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TV’s Dwindling Middle Class

nytimes.com

21–30 of 138 posts

Re: TV’s Dwindling Middle Class

#21
post #16
post #11

I think television just reflects the career-obsessed nature with society today. Characters are not just competent employees, they tend to be excellent at their jobs (top of their field, seemingly) while spending very little time doing their job. I don't know if blue-collaredness is looked down upon, but it feels like writers go out of their way to let it be known that the characters we are supposed to like, are extra…

Not trying to be too snarky here, but blue-collaredness and excelling at one's job are quite orthogonal in my head.

[deleted]

Re: TV’s Dwindling Middle Class

#22
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? There wasn't anything remotely middle class about Dan and Roseanne in my memory. They were proudly working class. To me middle class means university educated, professional, two foreign holidays a year.

This is a difference between British and American English. In the UK, "middle class" basically means rich. In the US, it means that maybe you own a house.

In the US middle class has always meant middle - not at top in income/wealth (mostly income) but not at the bottom.

How they obtain the money (education, job) or how they spend it (house, holiday) is not important by definition - however there is some social expectations of the American middle class.

Many Americans don't have the time off work for two holidays a year, even if they have plenty of money, which is another difference, which changes the American social expectations of the US "middle class."

A family with nurse and a teacher for example (two professionals) would bring in somewhere around $100,000/yr and be upper class.

There's a lot of variations by geography (cost of living) and stuff too, but I simplified it.

In reality the amount of financial security a family has is often a function of how well they manage it (as long as you are making above a certain amount where it becomes possible for financial security). If the above mentioned family over spent on a big house, two cars, a motorcycle, and other luxuries they consider normal, or even needed, then they can surely feel like they are living without much financial security, which doesn't "feel" upper class.

Unfortunately, middle class is a totally useless term because almost everyone describes themselves as middle class, I guess because they are somewhat out of touch with their spending and don't feel rich (previously mentioned family) or they are towards the bottom they don't want to feel poor. People who have a household income of $200,000 describe themselves as middle class. One of my coworkers, with a straight face, described me as middle class. I couldn't believe it - with a household income more than 3x the median household income in the US I can't with a straight face say I am middle class.

That's why politicians pander to "the middle class," because the majority of Americans identify with the middle class - even poor ones who don't consider themselves middle class but feel they will be there soon.

On the other side of the coin I have a friend who makes a middle class income, spends lavishly on consumer goods, and is always complaining about how poor she is.

Like I said, totally useless term.

Re: TV’s Dwindling Middle Class

#23
post #2

I remember growing up as a lower-middle class midwestern kid, Roseanne was a show I loved, because I identified with it so much. Dan and Roseanne were my parents, and my friends were just like Darlene and Becky. Another similar show from that era is "Grace Under Fire". As a 35-yo upper-middle class guy still in the midwest, I look at what's on TV (both broadcast and Netflix/Amazon/etc.) and see none of that represent…

King of Queens is another

Re: TV’s Dwindling Middle Class

#24
post #16
post #11

I think television just reflects the career-obsessed nature with society today. Characters are not just competent employees, they tend to be excellent at their jobs (top of their field, seemingly) while spending very little time doing their job. I don't know if blue-collaredness is looked down upon, but it feels like writers go out of their way to let it be known that the characters we are supposed to like, are extra…

Not trying to be too snarky here, but blue-collaredness and excelling at one's job are quite orthogonal in my head.

That is true - blue collar is a type of job, while excellence is a measure of job performance. Perhaps parent just meant to say that the characters mostly work white collar jobs, and accidentally conflated the two.

An interesting counter-example would be Friends, where one of the characters worked a blue-collar job, and none were explicitly "excellent".

Re: TV’s Dwindling Middle Class

#25
I grew up upper-lower-middle class in a dying manufacturing town near Chicago so the The Simpsons, Married with Children, Roseanne always felt like home.

I can't agree with the article tho. I still see that same grasping in current shows like Better Call Saul, Shameless (which, aside from Season 2, is fantastic), and, in a different way, The Big Bang Theory and Silicon Valley.

Most comedies are just joke delivery mediums with paper thin walls. But nothing has changed, shows have always been a reflection of their creators/runners and the networks fund people who've had hits.. Family Guy was a hit on DVD/[adult swim]? Ok! Order two more joke delivery vehicles from Seth MacFarlane!

James L. Brooks had a string of hits with a strong emotional core. So after he helped get The Simpsons on the air it made sense that he essentially forced the 20-something writers to build the show around an emotional/sentimental core instead of letting it to devolve into a gag factory out of the gate.

Re: TV’s Dwindling Middle Class

#26
post #24
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to be too snarky here, but blue-collaredness and excelling at one's job are quite orthogonal in my head.

That is true - blue collar is a type of job, while excellence is a measure of job performance. Perhaps parent just meant to say that the characters mostly work white collar jobs, and accidentally conflated the two. An interesting counter-example would be Friends, where one of the characters worked a blue-collar job, and none were explicitly "excellent".

I don't see that implication in OP's post..?

Re: TV’s Dwindling Middle Class

#27
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a difference between British and American English. In the UK, "middle class" basically means rich. In the US, it means that maybe you own a house.

Yes, as a British person I'd say an example of a middle class sitcom is something like Frasier, not Roseanne.

Frasier is very upper-middle IMO. Not because of the wealth per se but because of the professions, attitudes and cultural mores.

Re: TV’s Dwindling Middle Class

#28
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? There wasn't anything remotely middle class about Dan and Roseanne in my memory. They were proudly working class. To me middle class means university educated, professional, two foreign holidays a year.

This is a difference between British and American English. In the UK, "middle class" basically means rich. In the US, it means that maybe you own a house.

Are you from the UK, would you call David Beckham (say) Upper Class?

He's as wealthy as they come but pretty clearly working class IMO.

Re: TV’s Dwindling Middle Class

#29
post #24
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to be too snarky here, but blue-collaredness and excelling at one's job are quite orthogonal in my head.

That is true - blue collar is a type of job, while excellence is a measure of job performance. Perhaps parent just meant to say that the characters mostly work white collar jobs, and accidentally conflated the two. An interesting counter-example would be Friends, where one of the characters worked a blue-collar job, and none were explicitly "excellent".

Yeah, that's what happened. You can be an excellent welder but I don't think I've ever seen such a character on television. Being successful = white collared work and upward mobility.

Re: TV’s Dwindling Middle Class

#30
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a difference between British and American English. In the UK, "middle class" basically means rich. In the US, it means that maybe you own a house.

Yes, as a British person I'd say an example of a middle class sitcom is something like Frasier, not Roseanne.

Frasier was funny in America because everyone on the show but the dad was so hoity-toity upper class.
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