Apple Sues HTC for Patent Infringement • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Sues HTC for Patent Infringement

#61

Post by technomancy » Tue, Mar 02, 2010, 5:34 PM UTC

jlgosse wrote: post #56

raptrex wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Digital Daily has the documents http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20100302/apples-suits-aga... Gizmodo has a summary of the patents: The ‘331 Patent, entitled "Time-Based, Non-Constant Translation Of User Interface Objects Between States," was duly and legally issued on April 22, 2008 by the United States Patent and Trademark Office. The ‘949 Patent, entitled "Touch Screen Device, Method, And Graphical User Interfac…

Don't the last two patents basically give them the right to sue ANYONE who has ever made some sort of GUI application, including vendors in their own app store and people who write apps for OSX? Aren't these basically design patterns?

> Don't the last two patents basically give them the right to sue ANYONE who has ever made some sort of GUI application, including vendors in their own app store and people who write apps for OSX? Aren't these basically design patterns?

Welcome to the world of software patents. Many of the other ones are probably also very basic and widespread, they're just not worded in such a way as to make it so obvious.

Re: Apple Sues HTC for Patent Infringement

#62

Post by glhaynes » Tue, Mar 02, 2010, 5:38 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #58

raganwald wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aiding and abetting totalitarian regimes by censoring search results and turning over email correspondence is evil. Making shiny toys that don't do exactly what you want is not evil. Let's stop using "evil" as a synonym for "reprehensible."

Historically the word "evil" has had a pretty broad meaning. Among tech companies the word has a new and fairly specific sense that follows from Paul Buchheit's slogan "Don't be evil." That's the sense I was using. It has a pretty low bar. It means, roughly, winning by taking advantage of people instead of by doing good work.

Maybe Apple succeeds most when they take advantage of people and do good work. :)

Re: Apple Sues HTC for Patent Infringement

#63

Post by thetrumanshow » Tue, Mar 02, 2010, 5:39 PM UTC

Roridge wrote: post #45

If I were paranoid I might think that this was a bit of an attack on Google rather than HTC.

I agree. It smacks of a proxy war.

Re: Apple Sues HTC for Patent Infringement

#64

Post by rbanffy » Tue, Mar 02, 2010, 5:43 PM UTC

frederickcook wrote: post #37

Mobile devices is an incredibly patent-heavy landscape, where manufacturers are used to licensing technology from one-another and have been for years. Obviously Apple and HTC have been in discussions (lawsuits are incredibly expensive and always a last resort) and the fact that Apple went ahead and filed indicates that these discussions failed. This means either HTC was offering less than 'market' in licensing fees,…

It could be a "you infringe on as many of our patents as we do infringe on yours" thing too.

I expect a counter-suit.

Re: Apple Sues HTC for Patent Infringement

#65

Post by aswanson » Tue, Mar 02, 2010, 5:46 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #31

If this had happened a day earlier I don't think I would have posted that RFS. Apple is inching ever closer to evil, and I worry that there's no one within the company who can stand up to Jobs and tell him so.

The only person who had a chance of successfully doing that was Woz circa 1976. But I'd even bet against him.

[EDIT: Better grammar]

Re: Apple Sues HTC for Patent Infringement

#66

Post by rbanffy » Tue, Mar 02, 2010, 5:46 PM UTC

alabut wrote: post #30

yanw wrote: post #15

Way to stifle innovation, Apple. incumbents and lawyers getting what they want, fantastic system ...

Innovation and theft are two different things. Forget the hardware and architecture patents - I'm sick of design being treated as a commodity that's assumed to be freely copyable, simply because it's a user interface rather than a hardware element. Just as many hours and insights went into making the iPhone UI as it did the physical device.

"Just as many hours and insights went into making the iPhone UI as it did the physical device"

I seriously doubt it, unless you are counting all the GUI elements since the Xerox PARC days. Designing and manufacturing a device like the iPhone (or any other modern electronic device) is insanely complicated. It's bad when you use reference designs. It becomes absolutely insane when you invent something new.

Re: Apple Sues HTC for Patent Infringement

#67

Post by Roridge » Tue, Mar 02, 2010, 5:46 PM UTC

thetrumanshow wrote: post #63

Roridge wrote: post #45

If I were paranoid I might think that this was a bit of an attack on Google rather than HTC.

I agree. It smacks of a proxy war.

"if" it were an attack on Google rather than HTC, I wonder what it is that has spooked Apple to bring out such a big gun now, rather than earlier?

Re: Apple Sues HTC for Patent Infringement

#68

Post by rbanffy » Tue, Mar 02, 2010, 5:49 PM UTC

evgen wrote: post #54

tkahn6 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlocking A Device By Performing Gestures On An Unlock Image Maybe hindsight is just 20/20, but "slide to unlock" seems to be something pretty obvious.

It becomes obvious once you make the leap to "there is no keyboard, the touchscreen is the entirety of the interface", but prior to the iPhone no one had dared to try that particular path of development. It was probably not possible to patent the concept of only using a touchscreen for your UI, so instead Apple patented a lot of the little details that are a consequence of its innovative leap.

One shouldn't be able to patent something that's a direct consequence of having a specific limitation, This slide to unlock idea is something a reasonably clever designer would figure out in about 5 minutes.

And, BTW, is a common feature in many physical devices that employ a lock over a button. It reminds me of the locks I had in my car by the late 80's and the power button I had on a Compaq server in the early 90's.

Re: Apple Sues HTC for Patent Infringement

#69

Post by ewjordan » Tue, Mar 02, 2010, 5:51 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #31

If this had happened a day earlier I don't think I would have posted that RFS. Apple is inching ever closer to evil, and I worry that there's no one within the company who can stand up to Jobs and tell him so.

It's a real shame, too - it's so easy to hate Microsoft when it gets hostile and starts abusing its position, because their software generally makes you want to scream. Apple, on the other hand, puts out stuff that is a genuine pleasure to use, but controls it in increasingly infuriating ways. What's a geek to do?

On the other hand, I wouldn't be too quick to avoid iPad startups; even if it feels "wrong", your reasons for expecting the iPad to transform the computing landscape are as valid as they ever were, and there are good businesses to be built in that space. I'd let the RFS stand, and not feel too bad about it. Business is business, we do what we can in the markets that we're able...Microsoft has sucked pretty hard for a long time, but I would never dream of blaming someone for basing a startup on the Windows platform, and I think people that ignored it over the past decade were probably making a mistake.

What I would do is be on the lookout (maybe even draft an RFS) for startups that offer a better vision for the future than Apple, assuming there are any people out there with ideas about how to get a foothold and subvert their control freakishness. Bolstering products that compete with the iPhone and iPad could be a start; if must-have software starts showing up on Android, it would really help.

As much as we might want to blame Jobs for this, I fear that once he's not holding the reins, the company will only start acting worse, as they'll have lost a lot of the vision that drives their actual innovations. And that's when the serious consumer-hostile bullshit is likely to start in earnest...

Re: Apple Sues HTC for Patent Infringement

#70

Post by msg » Tue, Mar 02, 2010, 5:55 PM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #33

rauljara wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If that's the case, why can't they drop OS X and iPhone and simply make clones, just clones with polish and attention to detail?" I don't think you understand what it takes to reach apple's level of polish and attention to detail. They simply can't achieve it without innovating. "I can't figure out why Apple would bother if everyone else could "adopt" their innovation wholesale." That's like asking why Intel would b…

I think I do understand what it takes but you don't understand a rhetorical question when you see it ;-) I also think people draw the line where it suits their self interest.

Or the community interest. Is the plural of self-interest community interest? How much pain does it take to show the harmful effects of the monopoly outweigh the benefits?