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WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

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Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#421

Post by stale2002 »

gnaritas wrote: post #225
jMyles wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assert, and I think many of us here are moved by the notion that, as time moves forward, technological solutions tend to be confounding for entrenched power structures and empowering for social liberation. I don't really know how to parse "you can't fix social problems with technology," but I have much more confidence in the growing power of, for example, uncensorable media than I do in any fantasy of change in the…

Then let me be more clear; you can't get around laws with technology. You have to change the laws. Proposing to make something peer to peer doesn't address the actual problem, the law.

Really? Because Uber and AirBnB seem to be doing a pretty good job of using technology to get around laws.

edit: Actually here is a REALLY easy answer. What about Pirating and Torrenting. Do you really believe that this peer to peer technology hasn't massively helped people get around copyright laws?

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#422

Post by MichaelGG »

r0muald wrote: post #28
verganileonardo wrote: post #2

2nd time in less than 12 months. probably, we are going to see a surge in telegram downloads/usage today.

A true shame since Telegram is just as centralized as WhatsApp, minus the strong end-to-end encryption. Should it become the de facto messaging app for Brazilians, the next judge will just block Telegram instead. But decentralized communication networks that work mobile first are hard, we all know it, so there's room for improvement, randomizing server addresses on a daily rotation, or whatever may render pointless t…

WhatsApp could incorporate obfuscation proxies if they wanted to. Like the Tor connection bridges that exist to help get around a Tor block.

Maybe only activated once they detect a threat or something.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#423

Post by MichaelGG »

Spivak wrote: post #249
MrMullen wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatapp's uses the Signal Protocol Java, which is open source. https://www.whatsapp.com/security/WhatsApp-Security-Whitepap... https://github.com/WhisperSystems/libsignal-protocol-java

Oh ffs, here we go again. Yes, the signal protocol and signal's implementation are both open source, but you have no way to actually verify that WA has actually implemented the protocol correctly and securely. Sure you could do some basic packet analysis but this wouldn't tell you about the presence of any remotely triggered backdoors. The only way for you as a user to actually verify the security is by reading the s…

You can just decompile the program. Binaries aren't a magic black box. Given how much FB stands to lose by lying, is imminent l unlikely they think they can get away with hiding stuff in an Android app. As much as I despise FB, this isn't one of the reasons. (Using WhatsApp still gives them metadata and contact info.)

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#424

Post by SapphireSun »

girvo wrote: post #408
SapphireSun wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please take a look at the HN guidelines https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html I don't really like seeing what is very very close to a personal attack ("your argument is idiotic", "I am glad you are in the minority...") in what should be a civilized place.

With all respect, how is that "very very close" to a personal attack? Sure, they're passionate, and frankly I disagree with other sides of what they've said in their comment, but it's not a personal attack in the slightest: it's a strongly worded indictment of the parent comment and the opinions expressed therein. There's nothing wrong with that, that's exactly how arguing works, at least in my opinion :)

It's not exactly one, but I think the tone is excessively aggressive. The words maybe not right on the money, but someone not carefully parsing them might easily find themselves feeling that way. Riding right on the edge isn't the greatest idea when you'd like people to interpret your words charitably.

You can be civil while disagreeing strongly. For instance, instead of calling something "idiotic" you could say "I disagree in the strongest possible terms. I do not believe your facts have a basis in reality." This is still somewhat rude, but a lot better as it avoids entangling their personage.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#425

Post by BishoyDemian »

Netcob wrote: post #239
soneca wrote: post #64

I'm here to defend the judge's ruling, a position very unpopular among all my friends here in Brazil. Brazilian law regarding regarding privacy of users of internet services is very recent and clear: if a judge order the company to share a specific user data, the company must comply. You can disagree with the law, but the law is there. Now, the judge ordered Whatsapp to share a particular user conversation (a suspect…

To repeat what everyone else has said: The data doesn't exist on whatsapp's servers. Now I know the law's position is basically "do what we say or we'll punish you until you comply - and we'll simply ignore you until you figure out a way to do so". Obviously that's literally impossible for data that doesn't exist anymore, but of course it's technically possible to comply with these laws in the future. And I think tha…

> If your position is unpopular with your friends, then it's because you think the law is more important than the entire society it's supposed to protect.

Sir/Ma'am: you get my gratitude for voicing this. People do forget why we have laws in the first place.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#427

Post by MichaelGG »

bsder wrote: post #204
cm3 wrote: post #187

This is exactly why operating many small Murmur and/or XMPP servers is a better approach than relying on a single big-co's proprietary service with which you no signed SLA. Just like game servers, it's easy to operate a community Murmur server and it's also possible to set up one on your home router given the low bandwidth and hardwre requirements. Yet, if I suggest that I prefer Mumble over closed source voice chat…

> Comfort seems to trump reliability. Everything is centralized because of one simple reason: you can't monetize distributed. So, as a developer, if I want paid, I'm going to make a centralized system. The fact that the centralized system is way easier to develop/debug is just a bonus. As a user, I'm going to use the system that has the easiest installability/usability cross section. That app is likely to be the one…

Distributed means spam. That's not a solved issue. Email sorta gets around it with tons of filtering. On IM, spam is much more annoying (it's assumed you'll get lots of junk email even if not spam).

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#428

Post by gnaritas »

aianus wrote: post #367
gnaritas wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking at the actions of a very few people and making unjustified sweeping conclusions about what everyone is willing to do. A very small minority of the populations in both those countries are breaking the law to get their money around capital controls, that doesn't in any way challenge the point that most people won't. Most people break drug laws at some point in their lives just for fun, still not relevant…

> Most people obey most laws most of the time I think you're inverting the causation. Of course things that most people do most of the time would not be illegal, those laws would be very difficult to introduce and sustain politically. > especially ones that can get them into serious trouble It's not enough for a law to carry a heavy penalty, people have to believe they can/will get caught and the penalty will apply t…

It's true for drug use as well, but that's not the point. The point is laws do deter, they don't prevent everyone, but they can easily kill mass adoption of anything. You can try to skirt around that all you like, but it's true none the less. Bitcoin is not special in this regard, if the US outlawed it, mass adoption would not be an option. And no, you don't need consistent enforcement of laws to make them intimidating, selective enforcement does that too.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#429

Post by davesque »

soneca wrote: post #64

I'm here to defend the judge's ruling, a position very unpopular among all my friends here in Brazil. Brazilian law regarding regarding privacy of users of internet services is very recent and clear: if a judge order the company to share a specific user data, the company must comply. You can disagree with the law, but the law is there. Now, the judge ordered Whatsapp to share a particular user conversation (a suspect…

But WhatsApp doesn't have the information. It's like ordering Fedex to turn over a package that they've already delivered.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#430

Post by sdk77 »

tluyben2 wrote: post #378
kartan wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why Google doesn't operates in China at full scale. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China They decided that was agains the company values to comply with Chinese law, so they stopped offering some services. It's the law, and maybe I don't like it at all, but still I thing that companies should comply. I also thing that that laws should me changed.

Some services? I have not found any Google service to work over there. Which one should work?

Gmail works, in the sense that Shanghai utility is able to deliver e-mails to me when it's time to pay the electricity bill. Downloading stuff from google's android repostitories (i.e. for developing Android) also works (most of the time).
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