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WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

theintercept.com

341–350 of 629 posts

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then don’t publish your app in those countries.

But....why not? As a person interested in selling my app, why would I not publish it in the largest number of markets available?

Because if you're not willing to do the legwork to see if your app is following the letter of the law in those countries, you may be subjected to being banned due to violation of said laws.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever they're not making official rulings, what judges of the STF say is just a matter of personal opinion. To validate the impeachment these judges need to rule on the validity of the charges raised against president Rousseff.

And they will rule in favor when it comes to the senate, just as they expressed in the link that they would. Saying "there's a coup!" is cheap government propaganda. The impeachment is proceeding according to the law and the charges are serious.

By force of law, judges are not allowed to pre-judge, i.e., to express to the public what they will decide on the bench. Suggesting the opposite is the exact definition of propaganda. This impeachment will only be legal if the supreme decides so, and that can only happen when they sit to judge this issue. Until then, the whole process is proceeding in judicial limbo. It can quite rightfully be termed as a coup.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Law orders it to collect the data Which law orders them to collect the data?

Marco Civil da Internet. Brazilian federal Law nº 12965. http://www.planalto.gov.br/CCIVIL_03/_Ato2011-2014/2014/Lei/...

All that law orders them to do is to record the access logs (Registros de Acesso), not the actual messages or any other metadata. Soneca's post above said the judge "ordered Whatsapp to share a particular user conversation", which that law doesn't oblige them to record.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they will rule in favor when it comes to the senate, just as they expressed in the link that they would. Saying "there's a coup!" is cheap government propaganda. The impeachment is proceeding according to the law and the charges are serious.

By force of law, judges are not allowed to pre-judge, i.e., to express to the public what they will decide on the bench. Suggesting the opposite is the exact definition of propaganda. This impeachment will only be legal if the supreme decides so, and that can only happen when they sit to judge this issue. Until then, the whole process is proceeding in judicial limbo. It can quite rightfully be termed as a coup.

No, it's not a political limbo. It got voted in the congress just as the law requires and is awaiting the voting in the senate just as the law requires it. The president of the STF presides the hearing on the senate where testimonies are gathered, and the STF votes for the impeachment. It's not "a coup" just because it hasn't reached that state yet. Stop spreading misinformation.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#345
post #340
post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel a bit silly for asking, but do you have a source? There is loads of misinformation going around in this thread. Are you from Brazil and do you observe this, or did you read it somewhere?

Please, don't feel silly for asking anything! Yes, I'm brazillian and in Brazil, work with telcos and follow the surveillance/censorship subject very closely. I can point you to some legal documents if you want but they're all in portuguese (and in baroque legalese to boot!).

Okay, thanks for the response!

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

doesn't law there mandate retaining of all communications for service providers? From what I can tell (I can read Portuguese, but I'm not versed in Brazilian law), that's only for ISPs.

ISPs have to maintain access records for an year. Application providers for six months [1] http://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/_ato2011-2014/2014/lei/... (subsection III, article 15).

Access records, explicitly defined in that law as IP address plus date/time, not "all communications".

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#347
post #158
post #64

I'm here to defend the judge's ruling, a position very unpopular among all my friends here in Brazil. Brazilian law regarding regarding privacy of users of internet services is very recent and clear: if a judge order the company to share a specific user data, the company must comply. You can disagree with the law, but the law is there. Now, the judge ordered Whatsapp to share a particular user conversation (a suspect…

There seem to be a few problems with this analysis. First, WhatsApp is a US company and has no presence in Brazil. Under many readings of US law (specifically, ECPA), US companies are in fact prohibited from complying with requests from foreign law enforcement for content, except in emergencies. Instead, foreign law enforcement must make a request for assistance to the US DoJ, which will then (eventually, and maybe)…

> First, WhatsApp is a US company and has no presence in Brazil. Under many readings of US law (specifically, ECPA), US companies are in fact prohibited from complying with requests from foreign law enforcement for content, except in emergencies. Instead, foreign law enforcement must make a request for assistance to the US DoJ, which will then (eventually, and maybe) process it and serve it on the US company. This is one of the reasons why MLAT reform, such as the proposed UK-US agreement[1], is so important because it would allow US companies to directly respond to foreign law enforcement requests.

If you want to do business in a country then you should follow its laws.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#348
The solution to this isn't a legal one, unfortunately. We can no longer trust the government, of what ever nation, period. In US we have Clinton and Trump as the presumptive nominees, both will be terrible for privacy and liberty. The solution is for WhatsApp (and others) to design a protocol that runs over common ports and encrypts end to end the communication and the protocol. Make it impossible to block without costly deep packet inspections and banning of thousands and thousands random relays, and it will not be blocked.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> except that you clicked "publish" somewhere on Google or Apple uploading interfaces. At which point you agree to adhere to their laws and regulations. A famous example of someone operating legally under local law, but who got prosecuted for having merely a website accessible in another country, was Kim Dotcom. That’s the current state of international law, either lobby to change it, or accept it, but don't ignore i…

>>At which point you agree to adhere to their laws and regulations. Uhm nope. If my app(published on Apple Store/Google Play) violated a law in Saudi Arabia and they sent me a letter requesting me to appear and subject myself to 100 lashes for violating their law, I would very promptly disregard said letter, to put it politely.

They have every right to pull your app, arrest you and prosecute you if you ever do go to their country, and apply to have your extradited under relevant treaties.
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