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WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

theintercept.com

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Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#331

Post by necessity »

soapdog wrote: post #34
samstave wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost like Brazil is the most technologically advanced poor-3rd-world-nation I know from my brief time at Facebook, they use Brazil user-searches in their intro classes to tableau reporting on users' graphs - "show me everyone in Brazil who is 18 years old and posted about subject-X"

Samstave, Just a bit of nitpick to save you some trouble in the future. Brazil is not poor. Brazil is the seventh world economy, if you count the number of nations in north america and europe, being the seventh world economy is a great deal. Also the division in 1st world and 3rd world is schewed upon today. Its akin to saying the N-word. There are much better, non-pejorative terms to be used. Brazil is a part of the…

There's no coup, stop spreading misinformation.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#332

Post by melvinmt »

jklp wrote: post #318
melvinmt wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> WhatsApp publicly stated that it does not and has not retained any message content once messages are delivered This does not make a lot of sense. If they don't retain any message content, then how am I able to browse all my message threads on https://web.whatsapp.com ? EDIT: I'm wrong.

I also use the web interface and I believe it tethers your phone to the browser - so the phone is sending the unencrypted messages to the browser window. If you delete a message on the phone the message disappears in the web interface too.

Looks like you guys are right:

"WhatsApp Web connects to your phone to sync messages."

I.. did not know that.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#334

Post by necessity »

coliveira wrote: post #297
lanna wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask the supreme court then: http://oglobo.globo.com/brasil/ministros-do-stf-dizem-que-im...

Whenever they're not making official rulings, what judges of the STF say is just a matter of personal opinion. To validate the impeachment these judges need to rule on the validity of the charges raised against president Rousseff.

And they will rule in favor when it comes to the senate, just as they expressed in the link that they would.

Saying "there's a coup!" is cheap government propaganda. The impeachment is proceeding according to the law and the charges are serious.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#335

Post by marcofloriano »

soneca wrote: post #64

I'm here to defend the judge's ruling, a position very unpopular among all my friends here in Brazil. Brazilian law regarding regarding privacy of users of internet services is very recent and clear: if a judge order the company to share a specific user data, the company must comply. You can disagree with the law, but the law is there. Now, the judge ordered Whatsapp to share a particular user conversation (a suspect…

You've missed the point. The judge is in his right to punish the company, you don't have to defend that.

But to punish ONLY the company, not it's users.

He could impose heavy financial penalties, for instance. But affecting the life of 200 mm users? No way ...

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#336

Post by shawn-butler »

Zarel wrote: post #177
return0 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, Facebook, a participant in PRISM, is now conducting civil disobedience. Totally believable.

Yahoo is also a participant in PRISM, and fought as hard as they could against it in secret court. https://www.wired.com/2014/09/feds-yahoo-fine-prism/ I think it's safe to assume that all companies involved in PRISM aren't happy with it and tried their hardest to fight it.

That isn't the same thing as civil disobedience

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#337

Post by rmsaksida »

coliveira wrote: post #319
rmsaksida wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem glad that this is happening because the government is unpopular I, for one, am glad this is happening because this administration has practiced an incredible variety of crimes, and deeply hurt the country in their hubris. > judges can use this power to attack any government A government isn't perpetually in power once it is elected. A government is always legitimizing itself, and it can lose its legitimacy…

> I, for one, am glad this is happening because this administration has practiced an incredible variety of crimes, and deeply hurt the country in their hubris. What you said just proves my point. You're happy because you perceive this to your advantage. But this judicial power works both ways. In the future they can use this power to do whatever they want. > A government isn't perpetually in power once it is elected.…

> What you said just proves my point. You're happy because you perceive this to your advantage.

No, I'm happy because our institutions are working. What I said doesn't support your point at all.

> But this judicial power works both ways. In the future they can use this power to do whatever they want.

If, in the future, another government does something remotely similar to what the current government did, I sure hope they (the judiciary) do.

> True, that's why it is called a democracy. The government will be legitimate only until the next election.

It will be legitimate until when it is no longer legitimate, which can happen - and did happen - before the next election.

> It's not a group of judges that can determine the legitimacy of a government.

I agree. Thankfully, it is not "a group of judges" that are leading the impeachment. It our Parliament and our civil society, including the Bar Association of Brazil.

> The fact that you consider me a PT supporter shows that you just care about your political position

No, it shows that I know how to read. How does the obvious, undeniable fact that you support the current government prove that I only care about my political position?

> not about the larger point around this issue. There are people pro and anti-goverment who see the big problem that is being created by the Brazilian judicial system. It doesn't matter what government is in power for this to be a problem.

I'm sorry, but I do not believe you. There are way more similarities than differences between this impeachment process and Collor's impeachment process. Were you as concerned back then? Nothing has happened now that wasn't scrutinized by multiple layers of the judiciary. Nothing has happened that wasn't discussed for hours, days, weeks on end by both our chambers. Everything against the government is strongly supported by evidence in a variety of formats. I don't think you are honestly concerned about our political system. You are concerned about the survival of this particular administration. Well, our democracy is maturing, our judiciary is maturing, and thankfully, though sadly, our President - who has committed "crimes de responsabilidade" - is going down.

Edit: removed harsh language.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#338

Post by coldcode »

marcosdumay wrote: post #315
icebraining wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Law orders it to collect the data Which law orders them to collect the data?

Marco Civil da Internet. Brazilian federal Law nº 12965. http://www.planalto.gov.br/CCIVIL_03/_Ato2011-2014/2014/Lei/...

It doesn't matter it's not a Brazilian company, there are no servers in Brazil, only the users exist in Brazil. They could mandate Mark Zuckerberg run around naked and it would make no difference. Maybe Brazil should create a great wall of Brazil and cut itself off of the internet. Then it could enact whatever laws it wants to affect companies in other countries.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#339

Post by necessity »

kartan wrote: post #257
MoreTuple wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they operate in Brazil? They apparently have no offices there and are only available over the internet (as is true of all websites throughout most of the world.) How can anyone expect to hold what amounts to a random IP address on the internet responsible for anything?

This argument looks like it can also be applied to even malware. If I put something illegal doesn't has the judges right to stop the distribution of that app in the country? Another question is if what Watsapp did should be illegal. But if the judges can't stop internet companies from doing something illegal who do you thing should do it?

No, he does not have that right. By that same logic brazilians shouldn't be allowed to visit websites from any other country where there's a discrepancy with brazilian law. With a government like ours next thing you know we have our own Great Firewall.

This kind of thing can't even be enforced, being so easy to bypass.

Re: WhatsApp, Used by 100M Brazilians, Shut Down Nationwide Today by a Single Judge

#340

Post by kawera »

lucb1e wrote: post #326
kawera wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP blocking at the carrier level.

I feel a bit silly for asking, but do you have a source? There is loads of misinformation going around in this thread. Are you from Brazil and do you observe this, or did you read it somewhere?

Please, don't feel silly for asking anything! Yes, I'm brazillian and in Brazil, work with telcos and follow the surveillance/censorship subject very closely. I can point you to some legal documents if you want but they're all in portuguese (and in baroque legalese to boot!).
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