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After a year of using Node.js in production

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Re: After a year of using Node.js in production

#71

Post by beders »

Silhouette wrote: post #65
beders wrote: post #55

Now all of a sudden, having types and some standards to gather around doesn't sound like a bad idea anymore ;) I agree with one of the commenters: Lessons already learned by older engineers (who went through similar woes with other languages/tools) are being re-learned again and again. The software industry is in a sorry state. Unless you are a very disciplined team with a very strong sense of writing modular code, d…

Lessons already learned by older engineers (who went through similar woes with other languages/tools) are being re-learned again and again. If only that were true! I think the JS (and more generally web development) ecosystem today is more a case of those who do not learn from history being doomed to repeat it. The thing is, if you actually are Google or Facebook or Microsoft or Mozilla or Apple, you can throw huge a…

I think I didn't express myself correctly. Younger engineers are ignoring lessons learned and are thus forced to learn them again :)

Re: After a year of using Node.js in production

#72

Post by peterashford »

I think the basic problem is that JS is not the right solution for every task but for the web, it's often the only tool available.

I had similar experiences to the OP. I had lots of code written in JS that I was happy with to some extent, but all of it would have been easier / cleaner / more maintainable in a less crap language.

Re: After a year of using Node.js in production

#73

Post by spion »

beders wrote: post #70
spion wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With node, at least you have the option to easily migrate to TypeScript and get excellent tooling.

if all the libraries you are using are as well...maybe.

You can write definition files for libraries. A lot of libraries already have such files: https://github.com/borisyankov/DefinitelyTyped

If a particular library doesn't have one, you can write it yourself. In that case theres no need to model the entire library - you can only model the subset of functions / methods that you use.

Re: After a year of using Node.js in production

#74

Post by athenot »

beders wrote: post #55

Now all of a sudden, having types and some standards to gather around doesn't sound like a bad idea anymore ;) I agree with one of the commenters: Lessons already learned by older engineers (who went through similar woes with other languages/tools) are being re-learned again and again. The software industry is in a sorry state. Unless you are a very disciplined team with a very strong sense of writing modular code, d…

Those are all very valid points.

However, having witnessed (different shapes of) the wheel being reinvented over the past 2 decades, my take is slightly different: each language/environment has its strengths. If you have the luxury of having a senior team that's decently versed in several environments, then you can have your cake and eat it too: for each tool, micro-service, component... use the right language for that. Then tie it all together on the network. Since the system as a whole is likely to be a network product anyways, embrace it to your advantage.

Joe Armstrong wrote a good post[1] about connecting programs a few months ago, that's quite relevant.

Node.js is a great environment for many microservices. Got a task to do which is 80% done in some npm module? Make a node.js service around it. Same idea for Perl & CPAN, C libs, Java tools, etc.

[1] http://joearms.github.io/2016/01/28/A-Badass-Way-To-Connect-...

Re: After a year of using Node.js in production

#75

Post by fredrb »

eknkc wrote: post #15

TLDR; Author actually wants to use Python. Used Node.JS regardless, for whatever reason.. It did not work the way Python works. Author is frustrated. Complains that JavaScript is not Python.

This. You can't apply some other language paradigms in every programming language just because it's the only thing you know how to do.

Re: After a year of using Node.js in production

#77

Post by encoderer »

beders wrote: post #55

Now all of a sudden, having types and some standards to gather around doesn't sound like a bad idea anymore ;) I agree with one of the commenters: Lessons already learned by older engineers (who went through similar woes with other languages/tools) are being re-learned again and again. The software industry is in a sorry state. Unless you are a very disciplined team with a very strong sense of writing modular code, d…

I've worked in three million+ loc codebases, in PHP, Python and Java. I don't share your opinion that you need static types in these circumstances. You need discipline, modularity, and most importantly you need to have been blessed with gardeners and maintainers throughout the life of a project and not just after a mess has already taken hold.

Re: After a year of using Node.js in production

#78

Post by Silhouette »

beders wrote: post #71
Silhouette wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lessons already learned by older engineers (who went through similar woes with other languages/tools) are being re-learned again and again. If only that were true! I think the JS (and more generally web development) ecosystem today is more a case of those who do not learn from history being doomed to repeat it. The thing is, if you actually are Google or Facebook or Microsoft or Mozilla or Apple, you can throw huge a…

I think I didn't express myself correctly. Younger engineers are ignoring lessons learned and are thus forced to learn them again :)

Ah, I see. In that case, I think we agree!
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