Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security • Hacker News Board

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#391

Post by bsder » Mon, May 02, 2016, 9:52 PM UTC

ibejoeb wrote: post #151

jerf wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a large number of places with densely packed people. The unique thing about airports is their access to airplanes and their capacity to be used as weapons. (I'm taking a broad view of "weapon" here; even old-school hijack-and-divert is still a political "weapon".) If it weren't for that, they wouldn't be particularly interesting and wouldn't need special security. If someone blows up the line, well, they di…

I know what you're saying, but disagree that the point of these operations is to weaponize vehicles. The airport itself is a distinct target. A successful attack at an airport would disrupt travel and commerce for weeks, as we just saw in Belgium. Nothing immediately comes to mind to mitigate this. We can only push so far upstream. We can move the screening to empty fields a mile away from airport structures and requ…

Actually, there is a very good solution.

Process people instantly. If there are no lines at all, then there is no target.

If people are used to effectively walking straight onto the plane, they aren't hanging around for several hours clogging up the system. And, anyone hanging around automatically becomes suspicious and worth a casual conversation.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#392

Post by monksy » Mon, May 02, 2016, 9:53 PM UTC

tlrobinson wrote: post #248

spinlock wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I can't support high speed rail enough. You get from downtown nyc to Washington dc without having your human rights violated. And its faster too.

What makes you think they wouldn't institute similar TSA-style [1] security on a shiny new high-profile high speed rail? 1. Or literally the TSA: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyo...

They've pulled this before in the commuter train station in Chicago.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#393

Post by simoncion » Mon, May 02, 2016, 9:55 PM UTC

rhino369 wrote: post #359

Hondor wrote: post #35

If a terrorist wanted to kill a lot of people confined into too small space to run away, what better target than these densely packed zig-zag queues? Really, what's the point of protecting a plane carrying hundreds of people by putting those same people into harm's way like that? It already happened in China - Muslim terrorists killed dozens of people waiting in a ticket hall a couple of years ago.

Maybe it'll start happening more, but a single bomb on a filled 747 you can kill 350 people. The same bomb on the ground might kill a dozen or two. A plane with a hole in it crashes and kills all on board.

> A plane with a hole in it crashes and kills all on board.

God no, that's far from certain. [0] Aircraft are designed to function in the face of all sorts of failures.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_840_bombing

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#394

Post by dionidium » Mon, May 02, 2016, 9:58 PM UTC

fbuilesv wrote: post #352

laxatives wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've flown with shaving razors and pocket knives attached to my keys numerous times. They get found and confiscated about 20% of the time. I recently forgot to remove both and the TSA agent spent 5 minutes looking for something. He found the shaving razor, but not the pocket knife and was very pleased with himself. Its absurd the profiling going on with the TSA. If I dress well, I get rushed through the lines quickly…

Similar story here. I'm a smoker and usually do international/inside-US flights on a monthly basis. In 7-8 years the only lighters I recall losing have been in my home country (where pat downs and having your bags opened are a common thing). Curiously, I haven't had a TSA line longer than 45 minutes flying from places in NY, CA or FL (I mostly flight late evening/disgustingly-early morning though) in the last few mon…

Lighters are not forbidden. I was told to toss out all but one when coming back into the U.S. from Canada, once, but that's about as far as it's ever gone. I travel a fair amount and almost always with one or more lighters.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#395

Post by sib » Mon, May 02, 2016, 9:59 PM UTC

tlrobinson wrote: post #261

nfriedly wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're just as bad at identifying actual "weapons": I flew to South America with a layover in Miami a few years back. Got past TSA without any trouble on the domestic leg, then I had to go through again for the international leg. The second time through security, they said they saw a blade on the x-ray.. turns out they were right. I forgot I had left a multi-tool in my bag. Thankfully, they just trashed it and let m…

My friend accidentally took a multi-tool through airport screening shortly after 9/11 and had to lawyer up to get the resulting shitstorm to go away (and he's white and an American citizen) On the other hand, I remember when I was a kid in the 90s and accidentally took my pocket knife (3" blade) through screening, and they found it but let me bring it on the plane...

I flew SwissAir first class in the '90's and they actually handed out branded Swiss Army knives to passengers on the plane... The good ol' days.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#396

Post by incongruity » Mon, May 02, 2016, 10:02 PM UTC

nfriedly wrote: post #67

tehwebguy wrote: post #25

Here's an awesome TSA story for you: Late last year while trying to fly out of LAX a TSA employee thought I was carrying a throwing star. They called the police, who correctly identified as a toy in seconds. I thought the whole ordeal was over until I got a "notice of violation" in the mail from TSA 45 days later. Now I'm banned from pre-check for three years, even though I have global entry and even though the fine…

They're just as bad at identifying actual "weapons": I flew to South America with a layover in Miami a few years back. Got past TSA without any trouble on the domestic leg, then I had to go through again for the international leg. The second time through security, they said they saw a blade on the x-ray.. turns out they were right. I forgot I had left a multi-tool in my bag. Thankfully, they just trashed it and let m…

Flying out of Louisville, I saw the same story with the guy in front of me - except it was a clip for a pistol and he was livid because this was his return flight, meaning they missed it in Miami (I think it was Miami). I'm glad the SDF TSA caught it but it definitely didn't inspire confidence overall.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#397

Post by hobs » Mon, May 02, 2016, 10:04 PM UTC

My cousin just got sent back to Europe this morning for no specified reason and was given 90 seconds to call his family before being ejected from the USA. Just on vacation and going to house sit for my mom.

Still waiting on him landing so I can get more details. What a dumb world.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#398

Post by cm2187 » Mon, May 02, 2016, 10:07 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #367

cm2187 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can also carry a clown hat all day long and it will keep the pink elephants away. But there are not pink elephant! Then it means my hat is working! My theory on planes hijacking is rather that if you have a bunch of arabs taking over a plane today (after 9/11, the Paris attacks, etc), the passengers will think that doing nothing will lead to certain death, and therefore it will be impossible for the terrorists to c…

People do occasionally try to blow up airplanes and such. The tactic of hijacking an airplane to crash it into something isn't the only possibility. If your assertion is that security checks prevent no attacks, then you're implying that no attacker has been discouraged from making an attack due to the presence of security screening. This strikes me as absurd. There are good arguments to be made that many aspects of s…

I am not arguing that security checks do not prevent any attack. I am arguing that the additional security checks introduced after 9/11 are not preventing more attacks than there were before 9/11, they are just introducing a way to persecute grannies for having a pair of scissors in their bag.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#399

Post by mikeash » Mon, May 02, 2016, 10:14 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #398

mikeash wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People do occasionally try to blow up airplanes and such. The tactic of hijacking an airplane to crash it into something isn't the only possibility. If your assertion is that security checks prevent no attacks, then you're implying that no attacker has been discouraged from making an attack due to the presence of security screening. This strikes me as absurd. There are good arguments to be made that many aspects of s…

I am not arguing that security checks do not prevent any attack. I am arguing that the additional security checks introduced after 9/11 are not preventing more attacks than there were before 9/11, they are just introducing a way to persecute grannies for having a pair of scissors in their bag.

Really? That's not at all what you said in your original comment at the top of this thread.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#400

Post by occamrazor » Mon, May 02, 2016, 10:14 PM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #394

fbuilesv wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar story here. I'm a smoker and usually do international/inside-US flights on a monthly basis. In 7-8 years the only lighters I recall losing have been in my home country (where pat downs and having your bags opened are a common thing). Curiously, I haven't had a TSA line longer than 45 minutes flying from places in NY, CA or FL (I mostly flight late evening/disgustingly-early morning though) in the last few mon…

Lighters are not forbidden. I was told to toss out all but one when coming back into the U.S. from Canada, once, but that's about as far as it's ever gone. I travel a fair amount and almost always with one or more lighters.

One can carry one lighter (and no more than one), of the gas type (no Zippo's) and must be carried on the person (not in the hand baggage).

Having said that, these rules are usually not strictly enforced.